To think that 10 year old girls who aren't great at friendship...

[colourdilemma]

Might get better? Dd may or may not be a bit rubbish at friendship; dh sees nothing wrong, I see a girl who really loves being around people but is not all that great at the business of friendship and a bit fickle. She is talking a lot at the moment about not being included in gangs/games and I'll admit that sometimes I could see why. She does like her ideas to be heard and isn't great at being told what to do. Dh thinks she's ten and that I should let her get on with it. I agree with him to an extent.
I want a crystal ball though-I want to know that young kids get better at friendship with age.
Anyone have a daughter who struggled about with friendship but got better at it?

Warriors that must be very difficult for you. I think tho that many people experience the same thing and before consulting a child psy a parent needs to consider what this might achieve. If op you think there could be an underlying cause for your lo's friendship issues then I would be concerned and go ahead. If however it seems like a natural development of her personality it could be detrimental to tell her she needs to see a psy. A lot of people are just naturally very shy and it didn't stop warriors meeting a partner. Hope I haven't offended you warriors

I was a bit like this at primary school.. I had friends but they were short lived and I remember the last few years being quite lonely in the playground.. so much that I volunteered for lunch duty and small playground monitor! Then I started secondary school age 11 and everything changed.. I think I matured over that summer and saw it as a clean slate to be the person I wanted to be around new people. Never had a problem after that!

Nope im lucky to have DP understanding me he wants to get me tested for autism though

Thanks all. I am struggling a bit to decide what's normal or otherwise because I've just had a diagnosis of adhd and its made a lot of things make sense. Medication is helping. Thing is, I'm now trying to work out whether dd's quirks and problems are normal for her age or traits of adhd as she does display lots of other traits. And that is definitely making it harder to relax about dd. I don't want to project onto her but in the same way I don't want to ignore stuff either. Adhd has a big element of not getting social cues and I know I have had to learn (often the hard way) things that other people seem to just "get". But dh is very clear that he doesn't want to go down the route of even investigating it and academically she is fine (jus like I was!) although she struggles to concentrate on stuff independently.
Where do I buy crystal balls?

Once I hit secondary/middle school and everyone was in different classes for each period, I had hardly any friends. It got a little better in high school. In college I made a few more. But honestly, I have one or two close friends and I'm happy with that.

DH on the other hand is "best friends" with everyone, knows all their life stories and naturally picks up a new friend every day. He's happy with that.

My close friend is friends with everyone she meets but only close to one or two. She's happy as long as she gets attention with that.

I think the crystal ball depends on how many people your daughter can or wants to juggle. I'm happy with one or two. DH is happy with having a million friends. Part of learning how to make friends is trying to make them.

Dd was exactly the same. Her best friends mum felt the same, although from my point of view the best friend seemed popular and didn't have these problems. Her mum assured me they did.

It's actually settled since thy went to secondary. They no longer spend all day together and get on better than ever. Her primary only had one group per year and it was a small class so all the girls did everything together.

I could also see why dd could be difficult to get on with. I adore her, she is lovely. But sometimes she is stroppy and gets annoyed of people don't want to do things the way she thinks it should be done.

There was also a couple of girls that loved to start rumours and then watch it explode. The same girls tried it once at secondary and the school nipped it in the bud. But there are so many kids at this new school that they don't have to mix with the kids from a primary that they didn't get on with. My friend is a teacher and says its normal too.

Now that friendships are more through choice than forced it's easier. Not perfect but easier.

I have adhd too, as per the post above I still have a few friends. I get along with people very easy, I just don't make close friends easy because I'm not sure what to do past the chatting about inane things over coffee stage. Most people think I'm fun and energetic, but not someone you sit down with a tissue and talk about your problems with, iykwim. and frankly I'm terrible at that sort of thing anyway

I would say this. It doesn't matter if she has adhd or not. Having a diagnosis is not going to make her quirky traits less irritating to the other children that find it annoying or frustrating. She'll still have to find friends that are going to accept her for her quirks. Just like NT people, NAT people need to find people that they "click" with. She'll find her own set of friends eventually. The best thing you can do is tell her some people will like her, and some won't, and that's ok. You don't need to have a ton of friends to be happy.

I annoy plenty of people and have to shove my foot back in my mouth all the time. On the other hand... Boss's, friends, and coworkers have all learned not to ask questions they don't really want answers to. So that's a plus to not have that on my plate anymore.

But I still have friends, so do you, and so too shall she.

Senpai, that's a really interesting post. I think I'm in a process of adjusting to a big diagnosis and deciding what it means and doesn't mean. I have a few close friends but have been and still am rubbish at social cues. I have learnt not to interrupt, dominate conversations and monologue. I guess I'm also feeling a bit nervous for dd as its taken a long time to get where I am and I've had monumental muck ups along the way. Some of those muck ups would have happened anyway. And I wouldn't be who I am without them. Nonetheless, I am a ball of nerves for her and also feel as if I don't understand the minefield of friendship well enough to help her anyway.

Interesting about the quirks and friends who accept them thing-I think my problem is that I don't accept them! I still want to be the super organised, able to manage anything and still bake a lovely cake for tea type. And am gradually accepting that, although meds will help, I still am who I am. Blimey, it's soooo not easy.

I can understand why you'd want to consider ADHD as a factor. No parent wants to have their child struggle like they they did. Be proud of yourself for seeking help.

Did you worry about dd before your dignosis? Was there anything that didn't sit quite right? I say this because there is the risk when there's been a diagnosis to then look deeper into each behaviour and situation.

My DS always had trouble with other people and communication. He always stood out as different. He was diagnosed with ASD at 10yo. (Was referred at 8!) he also has real difficulties focussing on task in hand and I'm considering approaching Gp re Meds used for ADHD to help him focus.
But I am also aware that after the diagnosis I noticed stuff that alerted my senses. It's things friends and family have said ds always has done but it was natural to me to wonder what was autism and what was just DS when I was wanting to support him as much as possible.

I'd suggest speaking to teacher and then the senco in school. personally I'd ask if they see any signs of ADHD, explain why, and ask they keep an eye out of do a more detailed observation. This constant worry isn't helping anyone.

You have my sympathy. I was diagnosed with Aspergers a few years ago. It made it easier in some ways, harder in others.

I went through years of being investigated for damage to my brain. I had meningitis when I was teen and they thought had caused long term damage. Eventually a DR recommended assessment.

I am more accepting of my quirks but actually find it easier to overcome some things. I wanted to take up kick boxing, so did the kids. I felt sick at thought of entering a dojo at my age knowing nothing and no one. However I just kept concentrating on not letting my aspergers stop me doing something. I love it now and they know about my diagnosis and are completely accepting. It's a wonderful place that's really helped my confidence.

It's makes hard to know what's normal with kids. I am finding these preteen years harder than the other stages. Luckily dds best friends mum helps me out a lot is happy to chat things through and give her experiences. Which help a lot.

I've found the book 'The unwritten rules of friendship very helpful'. It talks through different issues and gives examples of how to discuss them with your child.
www.amazon.co.uk/372/dp/0316917303

Oops, apostrophe in the wrong place.

Inverted comma even. I am half asleep.

I work in a school and I see girls and boys experiencing friendship issues at this time. The main difference is that girl problems have a great big label slapped on them and people are queuing up to tell you that girls are difficult, bitchy etc.

It's also the age when we start to label behaviour in girl very differently than the behaviour we see in boys. Boys engage in banter whilst girls are bitchy, both in response to the same behaviour. Try not to label her any differently than you would a son and challenge people who do, cos it's wrong.

Yes, definitely worried about dd before my diagnosis. In fact, looking at her and finding out about adhd made me realise that I might have it and to seek a referral. And it's quite tough seeing a child that in loads of ways is like a carbon copy of me at that age. Especially since the only people who saw my diagnosis of adhd as clear cut and obvious were the specialists at the adhd clinic. I love my gp for her faith in referring.

As a child you have to learn about friendships - you are not born knowing how to be a good friend. Some are going to find it more difficult- e.g. If they are bossy and like their own way it will be harder because other children won't take it. They have to learn that you can fall out, have differences of opinion, compromise, manage to make up etc.
Yr 5 seems a particularly hard age for some girls and they have friends they can't live with and can't live without!
It gets better.

I never had problems with interrupting, but I do still have a habit of just waiting my turn to talk and then saying what I've been just about dying to say the last two minutes with no regard for what they just said. Or I'll simply tune people out. Sometimes I'll ramble on about the same thing, and manage to always bring the conversation back to it once my mind has gotten stuck on a subject. Or I just won't read social cues when someone is upset. I've had a few times when I've asked what was wrong, someone said "fine" and I assumed all was good...only to find out later to my confusion it actually wasn't. Now I just don't ask. They can be a grown ass woman and tell me if I upset them

I tried medication but it was more along the lines of "I want to do this instead of clean" to "I will do ALL OF THIS instead of clean". Not really too helpful. On the other hand, I did lose a good amount of weight from the appetite suppression.

But like you I was also diagnosed as an adult. At first it was like, "Aha! It all makes sense" hyper focused on everything about my diagnosis, then lost interest in it. In the most spectacular display of irony, I now have 5 books about adhd that have I have started and lost interest in a few chapters in. It's poetically brilliant in it's own right.

Once the newness settles down you'll figure out what works for you and what doesn't. I work best without medication because I've already developed coping techniques and patterns that meds simply throw off. My procrastination fuels my creative outside the box thinking because it gives me time to day dream and ruminate on things.

Granted I did carry a better conversation with meds, but it wasn't the miracle cure I was looking for and that was a bit of a tough reality to face that I'd be "quirky" forever. Now I've learned to just accept my quirkiness and understand the house will never be clean and perfect. My child will never have neatly organized toy bins or play areas. But I make things work in my own way and my child goes to bed happy, healthy, and in clean pajamas each night. Which is good enough for me.

DD has dyspraxia and really really struggled with friendships ar this age at Middle School. She was bullied (one girl was temporarily excluded because of it) and decided she wanted a fresh start for Upper School so went outside catchment for year 9.

By this time she had learned a lot about social behaviour eg. She told me she had found she had to be careful not to look at people too much as made them uncomfortable. She was nervous starting but I told her to fake it till she makes it amd keep smiling. Sh had a group of friend year 9 and half of year 10 then switched to one she was more comfortable with who are lovely.

She's now gone to 6th form college with 2 very nice girls from first friend group and one fom her second. She's gradually making new friends on her course. Originally she didn't want to go to this college as it means travelling with girls from middle school on the bus. One slight incident but that it has been fine.

The highlight of the year for her was getting funding for a trip to a Language school in Japan and going for two weeks after GCSE's this summer. She made some friends over there. One she speaks daily to on Skype and is visiting in half term.

I would never ever have thought she would do this when she was 10 and having sleepless nights about it all.

I've found girl friendships the worst thing about upper primary for my two girls, far worse than worry about the academic side.

Both have had friend difficulties, but over time, they are sorting themselves out. One of mine is also fickle, and tends to be too much for people, as well as quite disloyal if a better offer comes along. I've told her this but ultimately it is for her to realise what behaviour works and what doesn't.

The other is a little 'marching to her own beat' which then didn't fit with the fairly conventional group she got left with after some children left, she has now, after a year or so, found one or two new friends, so not hundreds, but ones that get her and her jokes.

I'm not saying don't pursue the ADHD side, it sounds like there could be an issue there, but even so, as others say, she will still have to learn to navigate the friendship thing. Try not to worry though, they seem to be practicing from Year 4-6 and perhaps are not all getting the hang of it straight away.

I had few friends as a child, a couple more in my teens but am very sociable as an adult, it doesn't always stay the same.

My DD was the same at this age, I think there are a lot of friendship issues in year 5 and 6, I think they are almost sick of each other after being in primary school with the same group of children for years. My DD found friendships difficult but as soon as she got to high school, she made a best friend and a set of new friends, all from other primary schools. She is still friends with some girls from primary (who are nice, laid back, calm girls) but is now really happy with her new friends, she has met 'her' sort of people, they are all quite clever and slightly geeky/ quirky. A lots of the girls that she had problems with in primary are now in the cool-popular group of girls and wear loads of make up, roll up their skirts and get in trouble a lot
If you could see into that crystal ball and see secondary school, it might make you feel better

All very helpful, thank you all. Had a brief chat with a mum at school this am and turns out her dd is not having (or not thinking she is!) having a smooth ride of it in y5 either. Same sorts of things as my dd is saying and I'd never have imagined it! Perhaps I need to just let it go and not get too mithered (dh would be banging his head on desk at this point because this is rather what he said last night-only until a lovely online group of ladies and one in real life say it too it apparently carries no weight!).

Senpai, intetestingband helpful to hear from someone a bit further down the line after diagnosis. I think I'm just moving out of the "my magic pills will cure it all and I'll soon be a CEO whilst also having an enviable social life and immaculate home" phase into the "explains a lot, good and bad, perhaps the pills will help but I'm stuck/blessed with still being me" stage. Hey ho.

Unfortunately my dd has had her head turned by the crowd who do roll up their skirts (although fortunately no make up and she doesn't get into trouble). And fwiw dd is rather clever, so clever doesn't necessarily equal wearing school uniform nicely and wanting to hang with the geeks. Dd has a revolving door of best friends, none of whom I've particularly liked. When I was at school the cleverest girl (Exhibition to Oxford) was also the trendiest and coolest.

LumpySpacedPrincess and RhodaBull make excellent points. I get fed up of the way girls and their friendships are stereotyped on MN.

Yes, well said Lumpy and Rhoda