If you set a detention - you turn up!

[Youarentkiddingme]

DC in year 7 so 11 years old. Just started secondary which is a lot different from a primary.

Pupils told to bring book to read during tutor time. Numerous students forgot. Reminded next tutor but again a few forgot. Third time set a detention for 15 minutes after school. Fair enough - however I do think at this stage they should be guilding pupils about how and where to record themselves reminders. They already have to remember so much stuff and they are still learning.

Told that it would be Friday after school. Arrangements made to get home after as school bus would have left.

Friday the 5 students turn up at tutor room and wait for tutor. She turns up 10 minutes later and tells them she forgot and should have emailed parents and sent home slip to sign and they would have to do it Monday after school.

Two of the pupils have a sports match Monday after school. Tutor has still not emailed parents or sent home a slip to re arrange for Monday. May use the I forgot reason again?

AIBU to think that if you set a detention for 5 students for forgetting something and then forget yourself you don't rearrange it for another date that affects sports matches at the last minute or potentially you made need to arrange again because you forgot to send out the letters?

So far this school are showing a lot of signs of punishment for simple mistakes (fair enough as they say they are to help student change their behaviour) but there's little evidence of modelling good practice to the students.

The pupils themselves aren't arguing the detention, aren't even cross with the teacher for forgetting - however have just overheard them laughing about the teachers at the school thinking fear of getting things wrong is a good way to get them to behave but clearly it didn't teach them to be organised or follow rules!

my daughter, just started Y7 got a 'directed study' session for forgetting her maths book with her homework in this week. School insist it isn't a punishment- yet she had to sit for 30 mins of her lunch time in a room with some older girls who had to do the directed study. She said she spent 30 mins doing nothing as she didn't have any homework to do, it was all up to date (including the maths homework-that'd been already done, and the lesson notes were written up in her book the same day when she got home). First time she's forgotten anything and the teacher didn't even tell her personally that she'd have to do the session but sent her an email about it.

As far as I am concerned that's not very fair for a first 'offence', especially as others have forgotten things in different lessons and not been issued with the same thing.

I think you need to contact school and complain!

I think after-school detentions generally are a bit unreasonable in that they punish the parents as much as the pupils because the parent may have pick-up or travel arrangements in place that will be disrupted because of the detention. Or if the child has to be somewhere else, like a music lesson after school, or the parent has to be somewhere else with another child, etc. It can have a disproportionate impact.

Lunchtime detentions seem a much better idea to me. But even then, a detention for forgetting a book is a bit pointless. There's a difference between absentmindedness and bad behaviour.

I think the detention has already happened, it's just that the teacher wasn't there to carry it out. I would probably point this out to the teacher and suggest that the detention should now be moved to lunchtime to avoid further inconvenience to parents.

DC should still do a detention to avoid feeling a 'victory' over the teacher (I certainly would've if not made to do the full time) but you should't have to put yourself out twice.

I also think lunchtime detentions are the only logical way.
We live very rurally, so it *has to be that way. Otherwise most of the children couldn't get home.
I think much of school life is still Victorian in its approach. I see more teachers punishing than enjoying teaching these days. I can understand that somewhat, however - if you can't remember you set a detention then perhaps a different career might be a good idea.

I'm listening to conversation with friend - one of the DCs is hers and 2 of the others are her friends. We are having coffee, my ds and her younger DD are playing and her eldest is in her room with a few friends. I suggested posting here for advice as we both said she shouldn't have to do it again.

However it's the girls reactions that are interesting. One has says her mum suggested she uses post its to stick to her planner to remind her of stuff and the girl said "why didn't the teacher suggest this? This would help me remember better than a detention" and another replied "maybe we should suggest it to Mrs X to remind her she's set detentions"

But we've both agreed this isn't wilful misbehaviour - what we would consider something that needed punishing.

They are good kids too. One has been asked to join 2 sports teams and been made year sports captain, one is a successful gymnast outside of school and the other a musician who is music captain for the year and been asked to play in school orchestra.
They are remembering music, PE kits etc almost daily and staying most days after school to practice/rehearse and to represent the school at performances and in fixtures. Personally I'm not surprised they forgot a book to read during tutor time!
Also they all keep up with school work and homework including catching up with missed lessons due to representing the school and chasing up homework set for those lessons too. None of them have not completed homework so far.

I'm actually impressed that they are being so maturely calm about it!

Reading a book during tutor time sounds like a time wasting exercise (and I love reading).

The sports match shouldn't be affected by the teacher's suggestion of rearranging.

The pupils turned up and that should be the end of the matter.

No teacher should be spending their lunch break conducting detentions.

Agreed with ilovesooty on all counts.

May I suggest that this ridiculous system of having to inform parents about setting detentions is abandoned, and that detentions are given and served on the day the offence is committed. Emailing parents and sending home permission slips, what a waste of teachers' time.
If they miss the school bus then they have to take public transport, or walk! I survived, and so did my children,in an isolated rural school, without parents having to be informed.
Gosh. Remembering music, PE kits and homework as well. I bet some of them even pack their own schoolbags.

Of course they pack it themselves! But for children who 3 months ago purely had to remember PE once a half term, homework on a set day and musical instruments once a week, reading books were given by the school and travel a few hundred meters to school they aren't doing badly to remember set PE kits and equipment 3/4 days a week, books, planners, pencil cases, homework and travel a few miles. And they organised lift home themselves and remembered to turn up to detention!
The reading books forgotten and DY set aren't the issue - if a tad harsh. But more the teacher forgot and seems to think it appropriate to punish them again despite the irony!

Oh and I also found out whilst round my friends (home now) one of the girls had a lunchtime detention last week for running. It was outside but running against the school rules.
It was set by a senior prefect.
She wasn't 'caught' running as she did it - the students look through the cctv of the school,mid entity pupils behaving inappropriately and then go and seek them out and inform them of lunchtime DT!

My friends other Dd starts next September. She made me laugh when she stated with a sigh - I've got 6 years of this shit

GoblinLittleOwl I wouldn't be happy at all if I arrived to collect ds2 from school and he didn't appear due to a detention I hadn't been notified about (we live too far away for him to walk, there isn't a suitable public transport route, and he doesn't always take his bike if he has extra stuff to carry, or it's pouring rain).
If I'm collecting him, we are always going straight home to be back in time for his older brother, who is disabled and attends another school, being dropped off by school transport.
I have no problem with him attending a detention, and I will pick him up after it, with his brother safely with me, but I would expect to be told beforehand.

I think setting the detention after three chances is absolutely fair enough, and the planner in itself is a reminder. However for such a minor misdemeanour a daytime detention would be more appropriate, and the teacher should absolutely have shown up for an after school. That said, I would not have the children attend anyway if there was no written notice of the detention.

I don't think the teacher was wrong to set the detention in the first place as they'd already been warned once and could have written it in their planner after that. I assume they are used to writing things in their planner by now? After the teacher forgot and turned up after ten mins though she should have cancelled the detention as it had already been served. How successful they are at music and sport isn't relevant. They should be treated in the same way as a pupil who is not music/sport captain etc.

PerspicaciaTick interested to hear your point of view that "Reading a book during tutor time sounds like a time wasting exercise"

Reading is a formal part of form time at my school to improve literacy; therefore every single student from year 7 to year 11 is required to bring a book and spend 15 minutes reading every day

op "Pupils told to bring book to read during tutor time. Numerous students forgot. Reminded next tutor but again a few forgot" now they have got a detention they won't forget again! We are now a good few weeks into term and the 'they are only year 7" is no longer an excuse - they know the rules, they have been reminded of the rules and therefore if they fail to follow them they should expect a punishment. A lunchtime detention may only be possible if a member of staff is available (and willing) at lunch time

Sorry, they'd been warned twice not once.

Schools no longer have to give 24 hours' notice for detentions and parents no longer have the right to withdraw their children from detentions. In fact schools do not have to tell parents the reason for a detention:

www.gov.uk/school-discipline-exclusions/discipline

I actually think it's really unreasonable for them to do it on Monday because the teacher forgot, your DD went and was inconvenienced by this, and I bet she won't forget again! I set a detention for a girl in my form this week (ongoing uniform issues, I'm not usually the uniform police but she really pushes it and has had so many warnings), then I ended up missing it myself s I ended up going to hospital rather urgently. I had planned to ask my colleagues if she'd turned up, and if she had I was going to let it slide as it wasn't her fault I'd not been there, and she'd done the right thing and come. As it was she did my detention with a colleague.

I cannot fathom why this incident should warrant so much earnest and detailed consideration. IMO, you are far too involved in the minutiae of your child's life. Have you thought of taking up a hobby?

I find the CCTV thing more worrying. Agree that this kind of detention should be lunchtime only though - after school should be for behaviour. That way you can differentiate more punishments too.

At DDs' school they also have to have a reading book at all times - I think having some quiet reading time is really valuable. My DDs love it, it's a point of tranquillity in the day.

I am a teacher and I would cancel it I think.
They perhaps will do that.

With regards to punishments being harsh, if you do not punish the little things, then students often start doing the big things. First they forget a book, no punishment, then start forgetting homework, their tie, they start wearing the wrong shoes, start turning up late.
If you punish the little things then the big things for the vast majority of students look after themselves.

The good schools you read about are generally the ones with the detentions etc for forgetting books etc

Hezaire
Although I agree with what you say about the little things etc, this is the FIRST HALF TERM that these children have been in secondary school.

In my daughter's case she didn't get a warning, it was the first time she'd forgotten something and had to do a lunch time session- that they claim isn't punishment!

I'd be telling them to take a run and jump for Monday btw. They had their chance, you changed plans and they didn't.

If they miss the school bus then they have to take public transport, or walk! I survived,

I would be fuming angry if my children were left 10 and 13 miles from home because the school felt they could dictate a detention at that time.

We live in a small village and I have 4 children in 3 different 2ndary schools. dd1 and 2 goes to the " closest" school 10 miles away.. there is 1 bus it leaves 7 minutes after school finishes. If they want to do after school activities we have to arrange them to be collected.

ds and dd3 goes to 2ndary in 2 schools in town 13 miles away they can take a later bus. However this will result in them coming home at 7 30 pm if detention pushes in on the next bus.. (there is 2 after school busses basically)

If the school had left my children to walk home I would be pushing safeguarding and asking for some serious answers from the school. Thankfully all 3 schools are sensible about detentions and after schools ones are not handed out easily or without communicating with the parents.

In the case of OP. I actually think that 3 times forgetting something is fair to give detention over. The jump between primary and secondary is steep I know (And I currently have one in year 7 so I am not behind with the reality here) However it is really not the teachers job to teach a child how to use a planner. Some children love them others barely use them. All 4 of mine have worked out a way to deal with them. As for the teacher forgetting.. I think the detention should be forgotten too..