If you set a detention - you turn up!

[Youarentkiddingme]

DC in year 7 so 11 years old. Just started secondary which is a lot different from a primary.

Pupils told to bring book to read during tutor time. Numerous students forgot. Reminded next tutor but again a few forgot. Third time set a detention for 15 minutes after school. Fair enough - however I do think at this stage they should be guilding pupils about how and where to record themselves reminders. They already have to remember so much stuff and they are still learning.

Told that it would be Friday after school. Arrangements made to get home after as school bus would have left.

Friday the 5 students turn up at tutor room and wait for tutor. She turns up 10 minutes later and tells them she forgot and should have emailed parents and sent home slip to sign and they would have to do it Monday after school.

Two of the pupils have a sports match Monday after school. Tutor has still not emailed parents or sent home a slip to re arrange for Monday. May use the I forgot reason again?

AIBU to think that if you set a detention for 5 students for forgetting something and then forget yourself you don't rearrange it for another date that affects sports matches at the last minute or potentially you made need to arrange again because you forgot to send out the letters?

So far this school are showing a lot of signs of punishment for simple mistakes (fair enough as they say they are to help student change their behaviour) but there's little evidence of modelling good practice to the students.

The pupils themselves aren't arguing the detention, aren't even cross with the teacher for forgetting - however have just overheard them laughing about the teachers at the school thinking fear of getting things wrong is a good way to get them to behave but clearly it didn't teach them to be organised or follow rules!

Good grief, I didn't realise there was so much formality with emails and so on about a 15 min detention When I was in high school (less than 10 years ago), small detentions 15/30 mins, were at lunch time. After school detentions were one hour, they'd give you at least a days notice so you could tell your parents not to worry if you didnt come home on time or to arrange alternate travel options. But you were under no obligation to actually tell your parents and the school certainly didnt contact them.

Very amusing to read comments about me being far to invested in my DDs life.
Especially as OP and further comments clearly state it's my friends DD, we were listening to (overheard) her and her friends discussing it, they weren't even saying themselves they shouldn't do it. My friend and I felt they shouldn't have to and I suggested asking here for others opinions.

I agree the sports etc bit is a red herring and shouldn't be used as an excuse to let them off detention. I was just highlighting how much they are remembering and doing now in year 7. My friends DD was entirely honest that she'd been reminded twice and forgot it the third time. She totally accepts she was wrong

My DS secondary do on the day detentions. They do inform the parents and will change day it it affects an appointment or something but because they finish at 2.30 and most children stay at school until 3.30/4 for club, homework or sports matches anyway it doesn't generally affect getting home. They also do 10 minute lunchtime detentions which actually I don't like because they only have a 25 minute lunch break. So I guess your never going to find a system everyone likes.

If they only have a 25 minute lunch break it will be hard for school to administer detentions during this time as pupils obviously have to be given the chance to get food - as do teachers! I refuse to do detentions at lunch time as by then I will have been at school for 6 hours, often with no break and have more lessons in the afternoon. I am damned if I am giving up that break to suit a poorly organised or behaved pupil.

It is understandable that the teacher forgot - she will have had countless other things to remember, and I also wonder if she may be an NQT/new to the school, as she confessed, has messed up again and perhaps doesn't have the confidence to cancel it now - which is I what I would do, since the detention has effectively been done.

I don't like the tone of some of what has been written - why didn't the teacher suggest post-its, should we tell her that etc. She made a mistake. I hope she won't compound it by making your dc miss a sports fixture, but I also hope you and your dc are not going to have the attitude that she is now a figure to ridicule, albeit gently.

25 minute lunch break here so impossible to set long detentions then. Had it been me, I would have got the girls to sit down for the remaining 5 minutes and the detention would have been done.

Good post re schools no longer having to give notice. All parents at our school have been notified of this policy. Funny how often they "forget". We also endeavor to email parents if their child has a detention, but the number of parents who say "oh I never check my school email!"

Reading in form time is invaluable at improving the literacy level of pupils, in our school pupils read a set text and then have a discussion about it.

I work at a school where there are no chances, especially not 6 weeks into term. If they forget something they automatically get half an hour after school that day and the parents get a text. I fully agree with it (ds is in yr 7 and has already had a dt for forgetting to bring homework in) It is lovely teaching students who are always ready to learn.

I think its fine for a teacher to accidentally genuinely forget something once in a rare while. It's human. They have extremely busy stressful jobs dealing with hundreds of children each week. Obviously the expectation should be that pupils/teachers remember things and naturally there is a point where the teacher/pupil gets into trouble if they forget. However the likelihood is that the teacher is being gentle with the students as the are new to the school. Of course parents have to be officially informed first for an after school detention. It all has to be above board and completed in line with regulations.

If your son is unsure what to do he needs to EMAIL the tUTOR directly this weekend and clarify what's happening. It's not a big deal. You don't need to make it a big deal.

ITS NOT MY CHILD!

I don't think from what I know of these girls they are and will ridicule the teacher. Just the irony of the situation is not lost on them. They haven't suggested or rather didn't suggest from the bits we overheard they shouldn't do it. They know they forgot on 3 occasions and there is a sanction for that.

My friend and I just began discussing how they effectively did the DT and we felt it harsh of teacher to set it again. My friend also had concerns that her DD accepted she would be spied on with CCTV and accepts the teacher is allowed to forget but she isn't. We also discussed how my friend is finding it hard that her DD is in trouble because she's never been at school before. My friend accepts that's her issue and that's why she agreed for me to post here to get others opinions.

Incidentally my ds has a dx of ASD and dyspraxia symptoms (is being assessed next month). He has support written into his statement re organisation. So this isn't necessarily something I'd come across because we have strategies in place for me to help him and school to log things for him.

If two of the pupils have sport then those parents won't agree to it& it will have to be done another time or the teacher will have to do it twice?

It almost seems as if she is trying inonvenience the pupils in the way that she has been by stuff being forgotten.

"I do think at this stage they should be guilding pupils about how and where to record themselves reminders."

Not sure about that. They just need a notebook, but not sure that they need to be told what to put in it!

When they get their bags ready for lessons, surely it's no more difficult to remember a book for tutor time than it is a maths book for maths!

My friends DD is the one with a sports match for the school. She's told her DD to take her kits but if she can't play then to get school to ring her nan for a lift home after DT rather than her mum picking her up after match.
She's suggested her DD just gently explains that she was in detention Friday due to her forgetting book 3 times but the teacher forgot and rearranged for Monday and she's sorry to let the team down.
She said to me it's likely then the sports coach will liaise with the teacher and maybe it'll be re arranged but she doesn't feel she can say her DD is not going as the teacher forgot once and her DD 3 times! Despite the fact she doesn't think that her DD should actually repeat it again she also doesn't want the school to think she's a micro managing parent or her Dd is treated as a precious commodity as she thinks it'll make things worse for her.

My idea of what an 11yo can do and should do is skewed due to my DS difficulties so my only actual opinion is in regards to having to repeat it - which I feel harsh. I do still think that many year 7 must need some suggestion and guidance re organisation - I'm an adult and still sometimes forget things!

Do primary age kids have a timetable in UK?

Here school start age is 6 & they have a timetable straight away, so by the time they start 2ndry school at 10 it's pretty ingrained to check the timetable each night & put in the necessary books for the next day.

Also have a homework book to obviously write down homework plus anything else such as money needs to be taken in or permission slip etc.

Not in my experience diddl they keep schoolbooks at school and they bring home homework each week. It's set and turned in on same day weekly so they for in a routine but not really into a routine of daily checking iyswim?
Reading books were generally taken home and taken in daily. So they may get them out but they were packed again straight away.

My experience is that there seems to be a massive leap from Primary to Secondary in expectations. Not a bad thing to learn responsibility but does seem harsh some the stories here of no chances. It doesn't necessarily reflect real life accurately! (Or not mine anyhow!)

Everyone has differing opinions of what's expected of 11yo and how much they should be able to do for themselves. Mine is obviously founded on having a child who needs constant teaching and reinforcing.
Personally I don't feel punishment will help you become organised. I think there will be a good number of 11yo who need some suggestions of how to remember things as a first port of call. I do think there does need to be a consequence eventually - which is why these girls accept it I think. They know they were reminded numerous times. The one commenting on her mum suggesting post its wasn't saying teacher should have said that - (I think teacher should have prompted them to record it somewhere they'd see it before punishment).

I guess it's one of these topics where everyone opinions will be based on own experiences, abilities of own children, their own ability to remember things and other influencing factors.

It is a difficult thing I agree as even if you remember to look at your timetable to get the books ready for the next day, there's still somewhere else to check re homework & possibly somewhere else to check re extra stuff.

Ours in primary had homework most days (school day 8-12), but yes I had forgotten that there was a place to leave books & they could just bring homework home.

Mine both preferred to bring everything home everyday!

I think the teacher is being a bit of a twat really, set a detention for forgetting an item then forget to turn up to it and make them do it again?! I would definitely be saying something.

Also, CCTV at lunchtime?? That other students are allowed to watch??!!! WTF!!! Every single job I've been in I had to sign the data protection act. Have these students signed it?! What kind of school are your friends DD's going too?! I honestly wouldn't be happy about that. I'd be pulling them out if that was me...

"If they miss the school bus then they have to take public transport, or walk! I survived, and so did my children,in an isolated rural school, without parents having to be informed."

Sorry, but that is just madness, and just shows a complete lack of understanding of other people's situations.

We live 8 miles from the school, down a busy, windy 60mph A road with no pavements. For DD to walk home would take 2-3 hours at least, on a very dangerous route with speeding cars and in a dark blazer (school rules), and no street lights. It just wouldn't be safe.

There are no busses from our village to the village her school is in. So if she had to go by public transport, she would have to:
Wait 45 mins for the bus to come from the school village . Get a bus to town B. Then change at town B get the bus to village C. Then wait at village C either overnight and catch the next bus back to our village as she would have missed the last bus back to our village by then.

Or, she could wait for a lift. But DH works until 6pm, 40 mins away from the school and I sometimes work until 5pm 1 hour away from the school. School finishes at 3. Students allowed on site until 4:30. So she could stand on a street corner for 1.5 hours waiting for someone to pick her up.

Which option would you go for, Goblin??

I think after-school detentions generally are a bit unreasonable in that they punish the parents as much as the pupils because the parent may have pick-up or travel arrangements in place that will be disrupted because of the detention.

I actually think that's the point. So that parents may have the conversation with their kids about what's needed and what's expected at school.

My school have a warning points system in that accumulation of so many points means a lunchtime detention, repetition of same behaviour or something more extreme results in after school detention. All points/sanctions are noted in pupil diaries for parents/carers to see and have to be signed by them. Seems to work OK.

I think the detention was fair seeing as it wasn't the first time they had forgotten. It should probably be cancelled now as they have pretty much done it even though teacher wasn't there. My DS has to read in his form group two days a week but always has his book in his bag everyday it doesn't take up much room.

My DS also had his first detention this week, he didn't hand in homework on the right day because his TA filled it in wrong in his diary and put it was due for the following week, he wasn't too happy.

It's funny how MN parents often think that after school detentions are unreasonable because of the inconvenience to parents and yet the same posters don't think that all sports practises, play rehearsals and music tuition should be at lunchtime.

I am not going to set lunchtime detentions at the convenience of students or their parents because I actually deserve a lunch break.

I tell my children that if they get a detention on the day I am working late, they will need to wait for me to pick them up afterwards.

My school only gives detentions after school. About half our students come by bus. They get a day's notice to make alternative travel arrangements. We do not rearrange detentions unless the student is absent.

They do of course have the option of heeding warnings and not getting a detention, if that is more convenient for them and their parents.

A 15 minute after school detention is a bit daft, and she should have just got them to do the last 5 minutes, then let them go.

On the detention front through, I'd say a 10 min detention after two reminders is fair.

I don't think it is the teacher's responsibility to teach the child to be organised, I think that responsibility lies with the parents. My daughter is in year 7 too, and if your school has provided a planner (which is seems they have), then I wouldn't expect the school to do any more. I would say that's my responsibility. My daughter is a bit ditzy, so every night I have been going through her planner with her and making sure she has done her homework / packed her bags. We've put a list up of what needs to be packed on what days... So I can take that step back and let her take responsibility herself. (She now packs, I check). Soon, I'll stop the double checking. But I don't think it's the schools responsibility to teach these things. When I used to be a year 7 tutor (many moons ago) some children get it straight away, others need more help - but beyond asking them to write it in their planners (which they may or not do, as teenagers know best!) making a few suggestions about organisation at home, there is little the teachers can do. I'd say that's the parents' responsibility.

However, the teacher then forgot the detention, and is in the wrong there. I think she should have then cancelled the detention, as the students had 'done their time'.

At what age are children expected to organise their own stuff and take responsibility for having the right things on the right days?
I would think by year 7 they should be able to do this? If you are inconvenienced by a child's detention, have words with your child.

I think children should be learning in year 7 to do it. I think some guidance and suggestions about how to organise oneself is not too much to ask. Chances certainly don't seem soft - some of the posters here have said their children for the one strike rule.
Certainly in this case where the pupils were given chances and reminders the detention is fair enough - the files even know this.
But I do think if your going to punish for lack of organisation and then prove your human yourself by being disorganised then you hold your hands up, admit you also were wrong and cancel stating its back on even footing.

I don't think the teacher would be unreasonable to then warn the girls that if they forget again they will be getting a full detention. Although all 3 of them now have 3 big novels in their locker they are hoping will last them all year I did suggest 1 each would have done and swap!

It is the parents' job to help their kids to get organised. Teachers have enough to do.

Regular reading has been proved over and over to have positive effects on learning an attainment, and is something which perhaps has less formal emphasis at secondary school. Keeping a book in the locker kind of defeats the point - which is surely that the children also read that book at other times

My experience is that there seems to be a massive leap from Primary to Secondary in expectations

DS is in Y6 and this is mentioned every week. I always thought one of the roles in Y6 was to prepare DC for this and to become more organised and responsible in time for Y7. DS has to complete his own reading record himself and we sign it. He has to manage his own homework. Doing it for him won't help him because everyone knows they have to step up in Y7.

The children did the detention.

That the teacher forgot to turn up while they were there is not their fault.

They should not be penalised and made to do it again for the teachers benefit missing out on other activities.

The teacher is setting a shit message if she makes them do it again.

I'm not sure it's expecting too much for a teacher to say something like "you need a book for tutor time on X day. I'll give you a few seconds now to log it in your planner"
It's what I'd do as an adult - take out my diary and record.
If - and I have no idea of actual circumstances - it was mentioned alongside a whole other load of information you can understand why they forgot (the first time anyway!). I know some children wouldn't start digging for diary/planner whilst teacher was talking as they may get into trouble doing that.

It's a sad fact that sometimes the pupils really can't win whatever they do. Luckily it's very rare IME - but it happens.

Maybe the locker thing does defeat the object. But the tutor has no say in what the children should be reading at home, if at all. They also have a school literacy book to read so are already reading one book. I know my friends DD doesn't read much at home anymore through choice because she's at school from 7.30-5.30 most days inc travel time, does music lessons one evening a week, homework and music practice most other evenings and when she reads at weekends uses iBooks.

I've spoken to friend this morning and told her what's been said here. She said she's glad most people think SINBU thinking doing it again is unfair - especially due to the forgetting theme! She isn't going to say anything as her DD doesn't seem too bothered but is going to keep an eye on the schools practices re detentions and the CCTV thing. She said it makes her feel something isn't quite right but as her dd has a massive group of friends and has generally settled in well she doesn't think a move is going to successful.
She has said she will challenge it if anything similar happens in future - but she'll chalk this one up to experience!