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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To accept I'll lose main custody of DC1?

64 replies

Leavingsosoon · 10/10/2015 08:27

I have name changed due to personal details but I guess I do want to know what you would do, what I can do.

I am certain I want to leave my abusive marriage.

However, our eldest is vocal in that they would want to live with their dad full time and I have a horrible feeling that this would lead to ultimately the whole family being fractured and ruined - if siblings wanted to then live with them, my husband would undoubtedly twist and turn things out of context to make me sound like the bad guy (I'm no saint, but when he gets on one I sound like a psychopath, which I'm not!) and all in all I'm terrified of losing my children to him.

Do I just have to accept that DC1 will go and I will lose them? Or stay? I've stayed for the reasons I've outlined above but I am just not sure any more.

OP posts:

ClashCityRocker · 10/10/2015 09:31

Just to throw this out there, when I was young (about 8 or 9) and my parents marriage was breaking down I was terrified by the prospect of divorce...it was, in my head, absolutely the worse thing in the world that could have happened. I used to tell my mum that I would go live with my dad if they did - in the hope of her thinking that she would rather stay then not have me live with her full time.

Although the prospect of divorce was never directly mentioned to me, kids do pick up on these things and I was well aware that it was a possibility.

At that age I had no concept of how horrible it would be for both of them to live in a loveless marriage - with the benefit of hindsight, they should have split a long time before they did and I suspect I would have had a happier childhood if they had done, as well as two much happier parents.

My thoughts are that your son is not yet old enough to choose or be responsible for that choice. It doesn't sound like your hopefully stbxh is the person best equipped to meet his needs either. If you think that he will twist things and poison them against you, this is also emotional abuse towards them - and I suspect it will be much easier to protect them from this as the primary carer rather than NRP.

Original poster

Leavingsosoon · 10/10/2015 09:39

It would be but again - I don't know if people realise - even if the court order says he is to live with me, if he ends up living with my husband, there's nothing I can do.

I don't know whether to risk it and hope that won't happen, hope that won't be an issue, but it is a possibility and one I can't ignore unfortunately.

OP posts:

LikeASoulWithoutAMind · 10/10/2015 09:41

Have you spoken to Women's Aid or similar OP? I wonder if they would be able to advise you.

A friend of mine stayed in an abusive marriage for years out of fear of the children having unsupervised access visits with their father. As it turns out, when things came to a head and they finally split, the children initially had no contact with him at all because of his behaviour. A few years down the line and they have supervised contact every couple of months.

this sounds so hard. I hope you can find a way forward.

TheBunnyOfDoom · 10/10/2015 09:42

He's in primary school - he doesn't get a choice in where he lives. If his father is abusive, then you owe it to him to take him with you. He's too young to understand, but until he's old enough to decide for himself, you get to do what's best for him as a parent.

Original poster

Leavingsosoon · 10/10/2015 09:44

Thank you, Soul, I really hope that does happen

Bunny, no police force, judge or court would listen to me if my son won't live with me.

Even if he does, he has access. At any time during that access he could state he wants to stay with his dad - and this would be allowed.

OP posts:

NeitherHereOrThere · 10/10/2015 09:49

Get advice from Women Aid - they have experience of these kind of situations.

Llareggub · 10/10/2015 09:50

You asked how you will manage; I couldn't figure that out but you will. It's not easy but doable, I promise!

tethersend · 10/10/2015 09:52

In what context had he said he wants to live with his dad?

Have you spoken with him about splitting up?

Finola1step · 10/10/2015 09:54

You are in a dreadful position.

I can not offer words of advice except consult and lists to a bloody good family solicitor.

But I will add one thing. I saw something on TV recently (on that dreadful JK show but was somewhat thought provoking). Mum had left a difficult marriage taking youngest dc. The two eldest dc were given the choice to stay with Dad or leave with mum. The girl chose to leave with mum and the boy chose to stay with Dad. He was 11 at the time. 10+ years later and the lad was in turmoil. And the mother simply could not see that an 11 year old shouldn't have been in a position to make that choice.

So the big question is why do you think your dc would choose to stay with Dad? Or is it more that they will not want to leave their home?

Finola1step · 10/10/2015 09:55

Listen not lists!

TheBunnyOfDoom · 10/10/2015 09:59

Of course they would, he's only in primary school. Under a certain age, it's not about what the children want. I think your H has brainwashed into thinking he will "win" regardless. It's not true.

I think it's around 11-13 when children's thoughts get taken into consideration. Under that, they live with their primary carer. Courts want to create as little disruption as possible, which is why the primary carer (usually the mother), stays in the family home with the children and the other parent moves out.

Children need stability and that means keeping their home, bedroom, school and friends the same. Are you worried your H will cause disruption and refuse to leave, and that your DC will want to stay at "home"?

Mrsjayy · 10/10/2015 10:06

I think leaving ypu eldest to live with their dad is a terrible idea dad is already teaching them that its ok to treat people like shit and they are in primary still do you want your child to grow up like him and go on to treat other people potential partners like shit on their shoes . Take your child with you is what id advise

Grazia1984 · 10/10/2015 10:13

Do remember you might get the house . Most children want to stay in their home - more attached to house than parents at 11+ and teenage ages so your son might want to stay with you if you buy your ex out of the family home which is what I did.

BertieBotts · 10/10/2015 10:15

Even if your H gets unsupervised access, it will still be beneficial for your DS to have you as the main carer, because he'll have that contrast. Abusive people can, of course, play the happy fun Disney parent card. But they can't play that forever and at all times. Your DS probably idolises his dad, true, but as others have said, it's likely if he's still in primary that he won't get to choose (whatever he thinks) and yes he might feel that it is unfair and be angry about it, but as his dad shows his true colours, he will see even if he doesn't necessarily want to admit it. And with a base of a stable, non abusive home base he will (hopefully) develop more healthy behaviours and attitudes than he would living with his dad.

Children need stability and that means keeping their home, bedroom, school and friends the same.

I disagree with this as a priority. I think that stability means staying with the parent who cares more for them, and also vastly reducing their contact with an abusive parent. House, bedroom and schools are a nice to have after that. I mean, people move all the time. It doesn't help to be worrying about this if it stalls the act of leaving.

TheBunnyOfDoom · 10/10/2015 10:24

True, but if ex refuses to move out and it goes to court, the judge will priorities the children staying in their home. If parents choose otherwise, that's different, but most courts recommend the children staying in the family home with their primary carer unless it's financially impossible for them to do so.

MrsKCastle · 10/10/2015 10:24

OP, I understand what you're getting at and I think some previous posters are missing the point.

Yes, you should fight to be main carer and your DC is too young to choose for himself. But you're asking what if your DS simply refuses to return to you after being with his dad. You can't pick him up and carry him off, especially if his dad is encouraging him. So can he be forced to return to you? I have no idea but I can see how difficult it would be. Ultimately, I think you'll just have to make it clear to your DS that you love him, want him and there will always be a place for him. And hope he eventually sees what his dad is really like.

TheBunnyOfDoom · 10/10/2015 10:28

Will your ex even WANT to be a full-time parent? He might do originally to get at you, but will he really want his DC split up and to be a full-time parent for the next 10+ years?

This might be a moot argument, really.

bigbuttons · 10/10/2015 10:44

This exact same thing has already happened with my family op. Left abusive ex, the 2 eldest do chose to stay with him. I see them regularly but it is heart breaking none the less. Recently my third dc(14) has chosen to spend the majority of her time with him too. I have 3 at home with me. However, it was absolutely the right thing to have left him. IT meant I could spare the others of his damaging behaviour and also be a better mother. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place and my heart goes out to you X .

Original poster

Leavingsosoon · 10/10/2015 10:57

It's so hard isn't it? Thank you to those who understand my position

A while ago, my friend split from her husband and she had main custody but even so, one day he just refused to return them. No one would do anything.

One returned to her, nearly seven years later.

It happens. I don't think I can leave, until they are much older anyway.

Thanks

OP posts:

RandomMess · 10/10/2015 11:14

Your marriage is abusive (that is what you've said) I would look at going to refuge and taking the dc with you. This will give you time to get a residency order etc. so he cannot not return them after contact. It will also protect them from further poisoning by him for some time.

ilovesooty · 10/10/2015 11:21

If you leave it much longer your eldest has a choice. Right now you're the adult and know what's best for him.

If he ends up being with your husband at least you've made the right decision for yourself and the family as a whole. The idea of staying with an abuser for years really shouldn't be a reality. Leave it that long and I bet you won't be going anywhere.

Original poster

Leavingsosoon · 10/10/2015 11:24

Your second paragraph does resonate ils, it really does. It's more than doing the best thing; it's also about doing the right thing - but the idea of the 'right thing' making DS the sacrificial lamb fills me with this sense of such loss I can't articulate it, so I won't try.

OP posts:

Focusfocus · 10/10/2015 11:25

My parents broke up when I was 14. My mother left.

I chose to stay with my dad and then my dad's mum (best person in my life) down the road. Chose yo keep my school, home, friendly surroundings when the world was collapsing.

Frankly if anyone had said then that I couldn't choose till I was a legal adult (as a pp said) I would have immediately acted on dark things I was very very close to doing to myself every time mum and dad had one if their grand showdowns.

Not going with my mum was the best decision of my life. It took her 5 years to deal with and she dealt with it by ensuring military division if me between them, hitting me, abusing me, threatening to kill herself if I didn't ASAP leave music lessons to go sit with her. It's all ok yo do in the country I'm from. My mums family stood and watched. My mums mum called me an ogress that I didn't agree to go with my mum. I loathe that family.

After that I turned 19, left my country was hugher education, never returned.

hunibuni · 10/10/2015 11:28

From my experience with DSD1, she was about 11 when she started to want to live with us (DH had split from XW when she was 4). She turned up one day after a fight with her mum and refused to go home. There was a pile of drama with police and SS getting involved but we (us and XW) were advised at the time to go through the court process because her wishes would be taken into consideration. The judge ruled 50/50 residence because DSD2 was still too young for her wishes to be considered and he wasn't going to split siblings. It did mean that there was a proper court order in place, although it did end up being a moot point because DSD2 moved in with PIL when she was 11. Our solicitor did tell us that the likelihood of DSD1 coming to live with us when DSD2 was still so young was very slim.

Grazia1984 · 10/10/2015 12:08

My point about doing what I did (keeping house, buying out ex, children staying in the home) was more about that helping ensure the children choose you as the resident parent as they want the stability. Possession is 9.10s of the law etc. Women on here may say to you move to a hostel but that is often a good way to lose your chidlren. Stand your ground in your own house, divorce and make the man leave and you tend to win out - win the house, the children and a better life.
Some people split a house into two although it does not sound as though that is going to work in your situation but there are lots of ways to split which aren't the conventional way.

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