To think that a labracockapoodle is a mongrel

[voluptuagoodshag]

So why can't folk just say so. Or would that be to justify the extortionate amount they paid for it so they don't come across as mugs.

This is all very illogical.

People pay fortunes for carefully bred "pedigree" "purebred" dogs

People pay fortunes for carefully "crossbred" dogs

Purebreeds may have inherited diseases and conditions

Crossbreeds may have inherited diseases and conditions

If you come across a "mongrel" (more than two breed dog) at a rescue there is virtue in rescuing it.

If you come across a deliberate two breed dog in a rescue, there is scorn and disapprobation.

Both dogs need homes.

ONCE UPON A TIME ALL DOGS WERE ENGINEERED TO CREATE THE FUCKING BREEDS IN THE FIRST PLACE. It is simply a continuation of that process.

And their is a reason first cousins shouldn't marry.

And if dogs were left free they'd mate with whomever they damn pleased and not give a shit what resulted.

The assumption that all doodle owners have paid extortionate prices for them (or the idea that those who buy doodles are worse than those who buy pedigrees) is ridiculous.

As I said upthread - my parents adopted a gorgeous labradoodle girl a few years ago. Through the same rescue, they're adopting a newborn puppy as soon as it's ready to leave the mother (the mum was rescued in labour so they need adopters for all the puppies).

Tabulah- Okay, remove that dog from the list, (although I'd be interested to see evidence to support your claim that it isn't spina bifida) what about all the others? We can replace Rhodesian's with king Charles spaniels, with syringomyaelia, what happens to them?

totalrecall- I agree, which is why we got a puppy too, but I just mean that in my opinion, the rescue argument is the only one that makes any sense at all.

I quite enjoy the mixing up of breed names. Having quite a childish sense of humour I get a lot of sniggering pleasure from shihtzu crosses for instance.

Well, speaking as someone who paid a not inconsiderable amount for an Irish Setter puppy a few weeks ago I certainly can't judge someone else on what they paid for theirs. I had some guilt about not going for a rescue but after weighing the odds we decided that it exposed our children and visiting children to a degree of risk. We just weren't prepared for the unknowns.

We spent a good few months researching, contacting breeders and the rest. I could never, knowingly support any sort of irresponsible breeding practices. We know the lineage of ours going back multiple generations, health test results etc. It helped us that Setters aren't particularly fashionable because of their wholly undeserved rep for loopiness. Also that virtually every litter this year had the same sire!

My only reservation about these designer crosses is that the ones I know in real life are owned by people who want a low maintenance dog that has no impact on their immaculate houses. Seriously, an owner of my acquaintance had her lawn replaced with Astroturf as the lawn looked untidy. I would have thought they'd be better off with a cat tbh.

Out of interest, how much does it cost to keep a dog?
£700 for a cockapoo - how much does it cost for pet insurance (which I assume a lot of people get now), how much for pet food, grooming? What's the monthly cost?

I have a yorkiepoo, she is a mongrel allright,with genetic deffects present in Yorkies and Poodles, so that rubbish of mongrels being healthier is, well... Rubbish.

I agree with OP. I had pedigree Yorkies and poodles before, since my last one lasted more than 15 years, I was hugely surprised at how things have changed in the last decade:

Before, most pedigree dogs were:

• KC registered or the breeder will give you the docs to do it yourself,
• they looked like the breed too and you could expect they will grow up to keep resembling it,
• the paperwork showed names (albeit ridiculous) like Ozmillion perfection, ozmillion invitation, etc and had multiple entries making reference to Crufts winners
• they were pricey but affordable.
• The breeders were also more professionnal and understood than once out of their hands they were YOUR dogs and offered you to be in touch if you needed futher advice.

Nowadays...

• most "pedigree" dogs are not KC registered,
• they, many times, hardly resemble the breed standard
• the pedigree papers have as many different breeds and crosses as you can imagine, with most names listed as Dave, Snowy, Floppy and the like,
• they cost an absolute fortune which is wasted because you have no idea how the big the dog will grow up or how it will look in the future.
• Puppy mill breeders are more difficult to avoid, there are also a huge amount of home breeders who just churn out designer crosses without checking the parents background genetics/health on the excuse the puppies will be all right because their parents are pampered pets.
• And even worse they demand to be in touch throughout the life of the dog, which is fine if the breeder looks like a sensible person but do you really feel like being in touch with a breeder, who acts quite deranged, every month and Christmas to tell them what Fido has been up to? (Mine eats, walks, poos and sleeps so I suppose I will soon run out of conversation).

I contacted many people who were selling dogs trying to find my last one, most didn't reply, but from the ones who replied: one was a puppy mill, the next one was never available to show the puppies, the third one was far away and refused to let me know the price of the dog despite many communications, the fourth one offered to send me the puppy by plane as she moved from the place listed in the advert, the fifth one changed her mind about selling, and the last one, her son started hurling abuse by text as he didn't want to sell the dog, when I failed to respond to his texts for two hours, the mum took over and became aggressive, at the end I had to block her because she was ringing, still hurling abuse, even 3 days later.

So, I decided to go to the RSPCA, and get a dog that I could see and touch before commiting the next 15 years of my life to it. She has 4 legs, 2 ears and a wagging tail and we are very happy with her.

Rooftop I reckon approx 50-70 a month depending on dog. We pay 30 insurance then 10 on healthy pet scheme with vet which covers jabs, flea/worm treatments and s monthly check up to make sure they're growing well etc. Food we buy massive bags of but it must be around 20 a month minimum - plus costs of the nice bits of chicken etc they get as treats! You also need to bear in mind neutering costs for year 1 if you don't want to breed - another few hundred. It's not something I'd have taken on if cash was tight.

We have a labradoodle but I am happy to acknowledge she is a mongrel and I normally describe her as such.
I think I'm a responsible dog owner. She is loved and well cared for. I have had pedigree dogs in the past and has fostered on one occasion. I feel no differently towards any of my dogs because they are "pure bred' or not. The dog I fostered came from a Kennel Club breeder who treated that poor dog as a breeding machine. It was disgraceful. My labradoodle came from a lovely lady who ordinarily bred labradors. She had very occasional litters and we met mum and grandmother who were happy and healthy and well loved dogs.
The arguments is a lot more nuanced than people think, but I readily agree that rescues are the best way to go. It just wan't right for us when we had our present dog.

Rooftopcat, it depends on the dog. Insurance is cheap to start with but goes up in price as they age/you claim. In average I would say that you will need to budget £30-50 for vaccines, about £30 month for food, £100 for bed, crate, coat, collar and leash if you have not had a dog before, and the insurance... When my dogs were young we were paying about £60 per dog per year, by the time they died it was about £600 a year, plus you also need to budget for vet visits that fall bellow the excess, again depending on the dog.
Another thing to consider is their teeth health, some breeds are more prone to dental disease than others, with mine, every dental procedure (not covered by insurance) was at least £200 as the dog needed to put under anaesthesia.

One of my dogs was prone to accidents and intestinal problems, I calculate that during her life time we spent about £8000 in vet fees whivh were mostly covered by insurance. My ither dog was problem free, the only claim to the insurance I did was for his cremation.

"We can replace Rhodesian's with king Charles spaniels, with syringomyaelia, what happens to them?"

A world full of shit quite frankly...but they're a breed that although lovely and fantastically suitable as household pets for most people I actively discourage people from getting because of the health issues.

I don't particularly care whether someone's dog is a pedigree, a mongrel or a cross...I've owned all 3.

I care about things like bad breeding practises that affect animal welfare and indiscriminate selling which again affects animal welfare.

If you have the perfect dog for you and from a good breeder, fantastic, because you're happy and the breeder is doing the right thing by the dogs and won't be adding to the rescue population.

The issue is that there are thousands of breeders, crossing any old poodle without health tests with any random dog they can find and claiming they'll be non shedding and healthy and the best of both breeds and then they don't take them back when that isn't the case.

It happens with pedigrees too, but crosses attract those sort of breeders even more because it's higher amounts of money and they're popular.

It's not the dog's fault, but it is partly the buyer's fault for not doing enough research...mostly though, it's the breeder's fault - but they don't care, potential buyers might, so people do their best to inform the public about what the issue actually is.

Also, separately - the names big me, because they don't work logically, lol, but that's my issue.

Thanks wasa and tiger. They are quite pricey - but cheaper than another child I suppose!

Am really laughing at Pieceofshitadoodle. Can't read anything else.

We had a springer retriever cross when I was growing up. He cost us £20 and was the Best Dog Ever. He was, of course, a mongrel.

Anyone who pays silly money for a any dog is a mug imo.

YANBU - The current trend for these varibreeds (I just made that up, I like it and I think I'll keep it) means that backyard 'breeders' can knock out pups who are undoubtedly lovely (all dogs are) for £££. A horrible practice which is all about spinning money.

But then, I'm not keen on the stringent breed standards of the Kennel Club either - so many animals bred to suffer awful congenital disorders: German Shepherds are such beautiful dogs, but my DP once told me of his mate who, when taking his GS out for hobble around the garden, had to hold his back end up in a sling fashioned from a towel because hip displaysia had made him immobile - makes me want to cry.

Give me a mutt any day.

not read the whole thread
but just from my POV - I have a lurcher which could be said to be one of the original cross-breeds being a mix of hounds
So far as I know his type have no major health problems and are as 'cheap as chips' but they are not seen as 'trendy' and the association with poachers and their ilk does not help
I would call him a cross breed rather than a mongrel not that it bothers him, (or me) one iota.

Ok you mixed a Cocker with a Retriever and a Shitzu, you could have a CRockerShit.

made laugh very loudly and startle the dog SoupDragon

We had a cut price rescued cocker spaniel when I was little. We weren't after a particular breed, we just wanted a nice little doggy that we could afford to buy. She had KC papers and a daft name (Crete of Honeysuckle), but although she had 'exemplary' markings, standard of the breed, she was no use to her breeder because she was too small - she later had a uterine prolapse, poor thing.

But our cheapy cocker, Katy Custard, was a brilliant dog and was very much loved by us all.

I don't care what the dog is, provided it is bred responsibly.

Bred in accordance with the market - good breeders will have carefully vetted homes lined up for pups often before they're born. No unwanted surplus sold off to anybody who'll have them.

Bred with careful thought to their genetic background and suitability for their market - genetic / health testing of parents, a sensible cross (within or between breeds) of a "good" animal - one which is sane and well natured, and healthy. Breed standards must be secondary to health and nature.

Puppies brought up in a suitable and sensible environment, with appropriate management and health checks to ensure they are set up for the future (a home pet may need a different environment from a working dog etc). Puppies also have to be accurately described - this is more important with x-breeds where you have (by definition) more variation within the litter. Breeders can't go telling people they will all be non-shedding / a certain height etc if there is likely to be a wide spread within the litter. Strictly speaking, there are throwbacks in pure breds too so folk can never be entirely sure exactly what their getting ( I'm looking at you, strange looking pedigree horse in my field ) and should be prepared for that. The hybrid vigour nonsense should be absolutely snuffed out in reference to a cross between two pedigrees who share negative traits.

Good breeders will often also write into a contract that no offspring from their pup can be KC registered without their consent - i.e. they get to OK the match. The KC have a heck of a lot wrong with them, but this would be a really useful way to control backyard breeding, if people still thought a KC reg dog was worth a higher price tag and an unregistered pup only worth a small fraction...

I find the cross breed names ridiculous because I think they sound silly. But each to their own. I don't think I could bring myself to buy a shih-zhu without sniggering either, because I'm a childish loser... I will always chose a well bred pedigree of a sensible breed (I have collies - who are comprehensively health tested) because they suit my lifestyle and I like them. If a cockapoo suits someone else, provided it's well-bred (or rescued, from a reputable charity), I don't see it as any of my business.

Ridge backs don't get spins bodies (a human condition) but they DO suffer Dermoid sinus, a similar condition and those born with it will usually be euthanised at birth.

I'm also interested which particular characteristics of the poodle (a cold water retriever) confer 'guarding' behaviours typical of the breed

• Spina bifida obviously