To think that a labracockapoodle is a mongrel

[voluptuagoodshag]

So why can't folk just say so. Or would that be to justify the extortionate amount they paid for it so they don't come across as mugs.

Lots of you would be horrified at the mutt in our family that was rescued from Romania, dumped in a forest. She is the sweetest, kindest dog that I have ever met, so good with the young children in the family and so happy to be in a home

While our Romanian rescue, who was in private care from a pup, is entirely unpredictable, with significant aggression issues. It's the risk you take if you rescue a dog with a complex background.

Some pedigree dogs are aggressive. However, when choosing a pedigree, you can thoroughly research the breed characteristics and the temperament of the parents - a good breeder will be aiming to prioritise temperament, especially in a pet breed. A good breeder will also raise the puppies in a suitable environment for their future, and then it's the owner's responsibility to ensure that they socialise and train the animal appropriately. Once you allow for these factors (i.e. not counting foul tempered animals bought from crap breeders / owned by idiots who solicit poor behaviour with bad management), the number of temperamentally unsound pedigrees will be much smaller.

If you're lucky, a rescue dog will have all those advantages and be a lovely dog. If you're not, you'll be stuck dealing with someone else's mistakes, having missed the most important stages where you can influence a dog's development.

People absolutely should rescue dogs if they're in a position to give them a suitable, safe home. Many of the dogs in rescues, however, are not suitable for the average household with other pets / children / people coming and going, and their existence should absolutely not prevent good breeders from producing and selling more suitable animals.

The caveat to that is that there are some breeds I'd be happy to see junked entirely - pugs, for a start - while others could easily be bred away from absurd breed standards, towards a healthier version of themselves.

tough just spoken to ManyTears - I think a collie or collie cross is too much of a risk in terms of how much stimulation it would need. Will give black retriever cross rescue a call or message them, as they sound interesting. Thanks.

John - this is effectively a search engine for rescues in Scotland.

You put in your criteria and you can set up an email alert for your search as well. It does come back with a lot of certain breeds, but that's partly to do with being child friendly and partly because they include breed specific rescues.

I really don't want lurkers reading this thread to think that a pedigree dog guarantees a good personality

You do realise you're actually the only person saying that, right? There is no guarantee of a good personality, but you can take reasonable precautions to maximise the chance of it depending on your circumstances. And for some circumstances, a sensibly bred animal, straight from a reputable breeder, is the best chance of that.

The dogs you've posted might be great. Or they might not - until you put them in a home and find out, you just don't know. FWIW, I have a friend with one of their dogs and it has a myriad of issues (though it is highly suitable for its current environment). I'm not anti-rescue by any means - we've had enough of them for sure - but I absolutely believe that there are more suitable alternatives in some situations, and that people should only rescue dogs if they're fully aware of the risks of what they're taking on. All this "my rescue dog is lovely, everyone should have one" is only one side of the story.

FWIW, I completely agree with you, tough.

Equally though, I got a puppy and it worked out well is only half the story.

The amount of teenage dogs that are sold online or appear in rescues tell a completely different one...they are all somebody's puppy where it didn't work how they wanted it to.

If you need - absolutely need a particular trait like being good with cats then actually a properly assessed adult rescue who is living in a foster home with cats is a much better bet than a puppy who may or may not end up being trainable around cats.

My dog has a myriad of issues...his behavioural specialist vet introduced me to a colleague a few visits ago as - living proof that you can do everything right and end up with a dog with severe behavioural problems.

Getting a dog at all is always a bit of a gamble.

We have a Borderpoo / aka borderdoodle (Border terrier / poodle cross).

He was £400.

I don't think anyone should charge any less for a puppy as if you can't afford this how can you afford to look after it?

He's just a lovely friendly chap, excellent with the kids and doesn't molt at all which is fab, I've also heard these breeds have far fewer health problems than pedigrees which can be really quite inbred.

So it has to be a snob thing or a fear thing

I genuinely believe you have either not read, or not understood, my posts. Either way, I'm not going to argue with someone who is incapable of seeing that others have different opinions which are based on equally valid experiences. I have not criticised your opinion, other than to suggest that you are, perhaps, more fortunate than many in similar situations. I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from making wild leaps of imagination about my motivations too.

Getting a dog at all is always a bit of a gamble

I agree - the only safe dog is a stuffed one. Even an adult rescue may behave differently in a new home and new circumstances. You're in an unlucky minority if you've done everything right and still ended up with a problem dog. For what it's worth, so am I with my rescue (he was a puppy when we rescued).

My point is that the route with the highest chance of success depends on the situation - and for some that will be buying from a good breeder. Taking away that option will not - in my opinion - improve welfare in the UK.

"and for some that will be buying from a good breeder. Taking away that option will not - in my opinion - improve welfare in the UK."

I agree, but the issue is that actually most breeders aren't good ones. Good breeders are really hard to find.

"You're in an unlucky minority if you've done everything right and still ended up with a problem dog."

My dog is like some sort of cautionary tale against getting a dog, lol, I can fill whole threads about him.

Luckily he's not my first dog and I know we've (me and him) just been hugely unlucky.

I agree, but the issue is that actually most breeders aren't good ones. Good breeders are really hard to find

And that is an entirely separate and deeply significant issue. This is where I wish that the KC had welfare at heart and not show standards - but that's just a pipe dream...

But it's much broader than KC - what proportion of breeders are actually registered? None of the cross breeders that's for sure. My mother decided she wanted a new dog. She's had several before, a pedigree spaniel, a rescued collie pup (mum rehomed to my aunt turned out to be pregnant) and an all sorts from the RSPCA. All had their issues, but were great family dogs. She'd been thinking about a new dog since the last one died and suddenly decided she really needed one (personal totally understandable circumstances).

I said that she should look at a rescue for an older fully assessed dog from the sort of rescue that uses foster homes and spends time matching dogs with prospective owners (and gives support afterward).

She was up for that, and I found a couple of local rescues that I thought might work. She did reach out but they didn't have anything very suitable on their books that week. In the meantime my sister looked in the paper/online, found someone advertising a small breed, went to visit and picked up a puppy there and then.

Was that pup from a good breeder? Frankly we've no idea. Hopefully they were a family who thought their dog was lovely, knew someone else with a male of the same breed and thought 'wouldn't it be lovely to have pups'. But it's just as likely that they were fronting a puppy farm.

He is a nice little dog, although he has significant enough behavioural issues that my mother thought about rehoming him, and there is still a fairly good chance that he'll be shot before he dies of old age.

Personally I think convenience and timing is a large part of the reason so many people don't get rescue dogs. It's just easier to avoid having a home check, waiting a while for a match, thinking about a particular dog's needs rather going on general breed characteristics.

Plus of course whilst saying that some breeders are good and most aren't, some rescues are much more approachable and open minded than others.

we have a sprollie who I suspect is also part setter.

he keeps us fit...

I thought about collie spaniel mixes when we were thinking about puppies. Sounds like a lovely, if quite mad mix! Possibly quite beautiful too if you think there is a bit of setter in there too.

I do find the term 'sprollie' quite ridiculous though.

They are also sometimes called 'spring bords'. Ours can certainly scale a 6 foot fence.

A cockerpoo or whatever is not quite the same as a complete mutt - so maybe that's why they're given a proper 'breed' name.

People pay loads of money because they want a particular type/look.

I met someone the other day that had a schnauzer/shih tzu cross. Sadly, it is not known as a Shitner.

But there is no standard for a first generation cross. It will have some characteristics of the mother, and some of the father. Within a single litter the puppies may look and behave very differently to each other. Our dog for example looks very different to his mum. As an American Water Spaniel she had a dark brown corkscrew coat. He and three of his siblings had short tan coloured coats. Two other siblings had longer brown and white coats. Possibly they had a different father, but they really didn't look much like their mum either. Our dog has quite a spaniel like nature in some ways, but that might just be gun dog (he looks fairly similar to a small lab). People often speculate about his parentage (the vet said he had a bum like a basset hound the other day!).

The point is that you really can't tell, you might get all the best traits of both breeds, or all the worst or just an interesting mix of the two. Likely there is some confirmation bias with all dogs - oh he is such an 'x'. Just like people do with people I guess (so like a boy/girl etc).

I have a cockapoo, and love him, his name and his temperament.

We chose he breed - crossbreed to be exact - to get the characteristics and look we like. Just like pedigrees. He was worth that cost to me, which is the same as every purchase we make.

And why don't I call him a crossbreed? Well, if I did that people would ask what cross he was, it is just shorter to say cockapoo.

Surely you'd just say he was a cocker spaniel poodle cross? That doesn't seem like much of a hardship! I agree that people often ask, it's interesting because dogs come in such a huge range, and it's very easy small talk. It just seems a bit strange that there has been this change, where once people would have just described their dog's parentage, now all these new and rather silly sounding names have been invented. It might be a few syllables less for the owner, but I'd imagine quite a few people are having to figure out in their head what on earth the other person is talking about (except for Labradoodles perhaps).