To fake having a disease, just because what I do actually suffer from is unheard of-even with doctors?

[XoticEngram]

I suffer from a sleep disorder which in itself isn't/shouldn't be a big deal. In the grand scheme of things compared to cancer, or some progressively deteriorating mental condition I am lucky.
However it does limit the work that I can do. Basically it is genetically impossible for me to fall asleep before 2-3 am so if I have to wake at 7am for a job that starts at 9am then its unworkable. If I was in a big city, this would not be a big deal but I live in Cornwall-a place with much reduced work opportunities.

As a consequence of this condition I have been claiming job seekers allowance for a long time. I have repeatedly tried to talk to Drs about it but in this country GPs are useless for sleep conditions and do little other than dole out platitudes about good sleep hygiene.

Now my job seeker advisor-who knows that I suffer from this condition- has rail-roaded me onto a 6 month work program placement which demands that I get up at 7am at the very latest.

Basically I have been put into a situation where I will have to endure 6 months of 360 degree hell with no respite whatsoever. I do not compensate any sleep I miss in the same way as other people. Being exhausted does not mean I fall asleep earlier.

Best case scenario- people on this work placement think I am belligerent and have an attitude problem.
More likely scenario- I incur damage to my health (in the form of excema like rashes-to start with) and succumb to alcoholism (something I have abstained from for over a year) and become a danger to other workers due to concentration problems. And end up receiving benefit sanctions on account of failing to meet the requirements of this program.

If I lived in USA and had easy access to a fire arm I might just turn my self off and experience Peace Perfect Peace.

Ive made an appointment with the Dr. It is unlikely that will be able to help me with what I actually suffer from so I am thinking strategically it might be better to say I am suffering from depression/psychosis in order to try and get myself on the sick. If I am forced to do this program this will probably be the result anyway as constant cortisol has a negative effect on any ones brain.

Please by aware-I WANT TO DO THIS PROGRAM. But the people who run it are unable/unwilling to work with me, refusing to acknowledge that the problems that cause unemployment are intrinsically complicated preferring to insist that a 'one size fits all' approach can be used for everyone. I think one of the people who runs it have an RAF feel about them, so they are probably full of militaristic virtue and belief in a regimented application of a hegemonic schedule in the curing of all of societies evils.
BTW- the name of my disease is Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome. I doubt you've heard of it, but its a real thing

Yes, I have researched the subject and it seems that it is not at all a life sentence. There are effective treatments, and people can and do manage to shift their sleep cycles to more sociable hours.

I Havn't RTFT, but could you set up your own business of dome sort?

There is a great deal of "yes,but" from the op on this thread. You need to sort this out, preferably by sorting out the medical problem or by moving to a location where you can work hours that suit your body clock, or powering through as best you can without your current Internet drug regime. And actually, why should the taxpayer suck up the benefit costs of you not doing either?

But to go back to the original point, of course the job centre aren't going to take people seriously who Effectively say to them "I have self diagnosed myself via Dr Google with a condition that conveniently means I cannot function before 11am and you are imperialistic bastards for wanting me to get up at an otherwise standard time".

Because they'll have heard it all before as to why people should not be expected to get up at 7am and without a medical diagnosis you will go firmly into their work shy bucket, which they see plenty of and have targets to get back into work.

"of course the job centre aren't going to take people seriously who Effectively say to them "I have self diagnosed myself via Dr Google with a condition that conveniently means I cannot function before 11am and you are imperialistic bastards for wanting me to get up at an otherwise standard time"."

And the job centre people don't even know that OP is taking a medication she procured off the internet without a prescription, which is only used to treat excessive daylight sleeping - i.e. it is a stimulant keeping her awake.

I am more inclined to agree with cote as surely the measurement of time is an artificial construct,so it is difficult to see how op can be 'genetically unable ' to fall asleep before 2 am. If she was living in the tropics one might be able to relate it to available daylight but as she lives in Cornwall, 2 am is between about 5 and 10 hours after sunset depending on the time of year. In 3 weeks time, the clocks go back which will give op an extra hour and if she gets organised in the evening she may not have to get up 2 hours before the course starts so she may not be as sleep deprived as she fears.

I'm pretty sure delayed phase sleep disorder is real, because I'm pretty sure it's what I've had all my adult life. Asleep by 3am is a good night. It is, of course, a pain being at work at 9 am the nights I've only had 2 or 3 hours sleep. But then, when I'm on nights I cope with them better than most people. My job can't just adjust the hours, and this is the job I've chosen, so I just run chronically sleep deprived.

Like, I suspect, a lot of parents on here!

I don't consider it, or my mobility problem, or indeed my chronic lung disease, to be a reason not to work. And work hours and work patterns that rarely comply with EWTD for that matter...

I have enormous sympathy with not being able to get to sleep. Lying awake, with the clock moving relentlessly forward, knowing you still have to crawl out of bed in the morning, is very tough. I'm afraid I have less sympathy for not doing more to help yourself.

I don't know how the condition works but ds who has this sleep disorder diagnosed by health professionals also has autism and for him they believe it is a result of some neurological abnormality.
Ds's time for sleep is just before 4am, this morning he had to get up at 6.30am for college. He won't nap and won't sleep until around 4am even though he has only slept for two and a half hours in the last 48 hours. Tomorrow though I won't expect him to wake until around 11am unless of course there is an early football match or a Grand Prix qualifier happening anyway.

You can buy melatonin on a website called Biovia or a Dr can prescribe it for you.

If she was living in the tropics ...

Funny you should say that - thinking about this last night (while in bed unusually early), I remembered that I did sleep more 'normally' while living in the tropics! The sun rose at 6:15 and set at 6:15, with only 15 minutes variation between the seasons.

My sleep cycle was still later than most other people's - and still got later as the weeks went by, as my circadian rhythm seems to be about 25 hours - but I was falling asleep more easily around half past eleven, which meant I was up in time for work.

My sleep & rest are all to pot nowadays, anyhow, as I have chronic health conditions and am on loads of meds. I've got to say that underneath all the other crap, my sleep phase is still unconventional - I won't say 'disordered', as it's only society's rules that make it a disorder.

I've got SAD lamps, alarms, dimmers, routines: the lot ... but they don't fix it. They only make it slightly less difficult to go against my natural rhythm for the sake of other people's normal. It isn't bad habits; it's an actual thing! Last I read (from an authoritative source), about 30% of adults are thought to have it, and it's actually normal in teenagers. It pisses me off somewhat that, in our modern world, there's no real reason to have all employees present & correct at 8:55. Flexible working's better for both staff and employers, but people have this damn bee in their bonnet.

I have similar issues with sleep, I mostly work backshift & night shifts & occasionally take sleeping tablets.
I need to work so just have to get on with it.
What about care work, backshifts would prob be suitable for you.

I don't have any other health issues btw except for not sleeping.

It does make evolutionary sense, too. If 70% of the community woke up at the right time to work the farm & do the maintenance in daylight, it would be helpful for the other 30% to be awake at night for hunting & guarding duties.

True Garrick, yet in this instance entirely irrelevant, seeing as the OP doesn't appear to want to work at any time.

People like the OP make me mad. They give real bona fide claimants a bad name, and cause us to have to jump through a million hideous hoops to prove ourselves. And then there's people like my DD2, who is plagued with long term health problems, and could quite justifiably take the easy route, yet is driven and hardworking, and dedicated, despite everything.

Just a few points OP. You may or may not have tried them but very simple things to try.

1. eat your evening meal earlier. 5-6pm and then brush your teeth around 7
2. no caffeine after 3pm
3. get outside for exercise everyday. Going for a half hours brisk walk before breakfast will kick start your metabolism and get it into a routine. Another half hour walking before or after dinner or even an exercise class every evening will tire your body out.
4. start a wind down routine. Switch TV, phone, laptop, bright lights off at 9pm. Have a bath with some lavender oil and just soak in it then nice jammies on and a glass of water to bed with a book you dont need to think too much about.
5. set your alarm for 15 minutes earlier every 7 days. So if you are currently naturally waking at 11am set your alarm for 10.45 and get up. Its only 15 minutes. You can absolutely cope with that. Do it for a week then set it back another 15 minutes. Dont worry about trying to sleep earlier at bedtime, your body clock will probably adjust itself. If it doesnt then maybe you dont need as much sleep as you think you do. Or maybe there is a real problem, but at least you can go to the GP and say "look this is what ive been trying"
6. set your room up for sleeping at 9pm. Close the curtains, turn off electronics, TV, overhead light.
7. have your mum come in when she gets DD up and open your curtains and window. She doesnt have to say anything to you or try and wake you. The fresh air, sounds of life and light will give your body and brain a nudge to say its time to be awake.

I really do hope you try some all of these things and get a handle on your sleep. I have a suspicion you've just created a long term habit of sleeping late in the day so not being ready for sleep til 2am. You need to try and break it yourself. But it also requires wanting to.

Can i just also add that you are missing a shitload of the great stuff by sleeping so late in the day. The early morning weather can be beautiful, the freshness in the air and even missing time with your DD when she isnt at school ( do you lie late all weekend too? And holidays?) mornings really can be a great time to be up and about. And i speak as a lifelong night owl.

I think posters are being unfair to OP. She said she wants to do the course. She's suffering horrible symptoms, which may be partly caused by stress and partly by her unwise use of pharmaceuticals. Her resistance to suggestions about seeing the doctor could very well be Modafinil addiction talking. I also recognise, from my experience, alcohol dependence as an effect of using booze to keep going through the tiredness and, afterwards, to sleep. It's all very messy - I hope Xotic will find the sense to tell her GP the whole story, unembellished, and ask for help.

haven't read the whole thread but is moving an option? I moved twice just for work. hard in the short term but doable. and the long-term prospects might be much better

Yes, I have researched the subject and it seems that it is not at all a life sentence. There are effective treatments, and people can and do manage to shift their sleep cycles to more sociable hours.

Someone close to me has delayed sleepy phase disorder. It's a fucking nightmare. They spent most of their twenties being a permanent shattered mess working all week in a high pressure job, not sleeping more than a few hours and then sleeping all morning and into the afternoon at weekends.

They manage it now via a combination of:

• Exceedingly good sleep hygiene.
• No caffeine at all and as minimal sugar as possible.
• No alcohol on week nights.
• Goggles to block out blue light in the evening.
• Doses of blue light on certain mornings to reset.
• Melatonin on certain nights of the week.
• Having their own business with business hours from 10.30.

It's not an exact science though. Knowing where you are on your sleep-wake cycle is tricky so it's difficult to dose with the right amount of blue light at the right time. They frequently go too far one way or the other and it takes a few days to correct.

It's something that occupys a vast amount of their time managing and they have to be really strict or something as simple as hanging out in the bedroom with the lights ok before bed can destroy sleep for that night.

Melatonin, blue light blocking goggles for evenings and blue light box for the morning have made a huge difference.

It's one of those things that anyone who has no idea will just say you're lazy, and not understand.

It is not a very easy thing to manager.

However, it shouldn't really stop the OP from working. There are plenty of jobs with evening shifts which would suit.

of these things and get a handle on your sleep. I have a suspicion you've just created a long term habit of sleeping late in the day so not being ready for sleep til 2am.

On behalf of the OP, I'd like to say - thays quite a patronising post. Akin to saying to a depressed person "well of course all this negative thinking has just got you into the habit of being a miser guts".

Yes i can see how it comes across as patronising. Its still true that its what i suspect.

OP - you're self diagnosing and self medicating - neither which is working for you or is healthy. You HAVE to get a gp investigate this fully.

You say you don't want to take antidepressants etc because you don't believe you're depressed. From my own experience i can tell you that one thing can have a domino effect and you can (unknowingly) end up suffering from more than one condition.

here's my experience. i have suffered chronic insomnia since i was a child -nobody thought it was problem even though i was constantly tired and often late for school. i was just told i was lazy and abnormal. By the time i got to college i got worse as now i had to discipline myself to get to classes and i couldn't. i was made homeless at age 19 and had to fend for myself, it was DO OR DIE. I went from one job to another always getting sacked/in trouble for lateness. I was constantly stressed due to not having the strength to deal with 'bureaucracy' and got in debt with court costs etc from suspended eviction hearings. i survived by the skin of my teeth. Throughout it all i never believed i was depressed because on the surface i was 'functioning' and had a 'normal' life - like you with your own place and dd.

in 2012 (at the grand age of 32) i came across the term Dysthymia and looked into it that i realised i WAS ill and i COULD be helped. i took antidepressants even though i didn't feel depressed and they helped, because after a month i was able to start dealing with 'bureaucracy', the debts i had accrued, the job issues etc. Seeing a counsellor helped because i'd never been able to just talk it through with someone who actually listened. Turns out the initial chemical imbalance in my body went unchecked, undiagnosed and untreated for so long that it naturally affcetd everything else about me and my life so i ended up with chronic depression - which was so insidious in its nature that i never seriously thought i could be depressed.

Today, i still suffer with insomnia but have been able to make the necessary changes re lifestyle and jobwise so that i can manage it. I am like a new person - it's like that 'other' me was a doppleganger who looked like me but wasn't me.

So speak to your gp and investigate ALL options and get officially diagnosed.

i'm going to pm this to you as well as i don't know if you're coming back to the thread.

To add, i do actually suffer from depression. Diagnosed. (Not by DR google) OP has no diagnosis and has sabotaged her GP attempts to ascertain whether she does or doesnt have a sleep disorder. Currently she is a person who sleeps late at night til late in the day.

CBA to RTFT
but if the OP had not already worked out that her ideal job is night staff at the Truro campus of the University
she is malingering

Universities and boarding colleges LOVE people who are wide awake at night

think laterally
job done

I had the adolescent form as a teenager when I used to stay up watching Prisoner Cell Block H re-runs and eating kebabs. (I haven't seen a doctor, I had a quick peruse on wiki and I mildly fit the symptoms).

It's definitely, 100000% not that I was lazy.

If only I'd known it was a real disorder I could have faked loads of notes to get me out of P.E.

If the OP really does have DSPD it won't be because of bad habits though.

I used to think the person I'm close to just had bad sleep habits and was a lazy fuck lying in bed all afternoon at the weekend. Reality couldn't be further from the truth

Reading the research, seeing the measures taken to try and adjust to a 'normal' society body clock and being under the care of a neurologist and taking part ins tidies have convinced me otherwise!

If I had DSPS I think I would probably succumb to a drug or alcohol addiction and self medicate. I don't think i would have the willpower to try deal with it like the person I know does.

f only I'd known it was a real disorder I could have faked loads of notes to get me out of P.E.

It actually is real and recognised, and treated. If you believe depression and anxiety are real then why would you think DSPD is not real?