To fake having a disease, just because what I do actually suffer from is unheard of-even with doctors?

[XoticEngram]

I suffer from a sleep disorder which in itself isn't/shouldn't be a big deal. In the grand scheme of things compared to cancer, or some progressively deteriorating mental condition I am lucky.
However it does limit the work that I can do. Basically it is genetically impossible for me to fall asleep before 2-3 am so if I have to wake at 7am for a job that starts at 9am then its unworkable. If I was in a big city, this would not be a big deal but I live in Cornwall-a place with much reduced work opportunities.

As a consequence of this condition I have been claiming job seekers allowance for a long time. I have repeatedly tried to talk to Drs about it but in this country GPs are useless for sleep conditions and do little other than dole out platitudes about good sleep hygiene.

Now my job seeker advisor-who knows that I suffer from this condition- has rail-roaded me onto a 6 month work program placement which demands that I get up at 7am at the very latest.

Basically I have been put into a situation where I will have to endure 6 months of 360 degree hell with no respite whatsoever. I do not compensate any sleep I miss in the same way as other people. Being exhausted does not mean I fall asleep earlier.

Best case scenario- people on this work placement think I am belligerent and have an attitude problem.
More likely scenario- I incur damage to my health (in the form of excema like rashes-to start with) and succumb to alcoholism (something I have abstained from for over a year) and become a danger to other workers due to concentration problems. And end up receiving benefit sanctions on account of failing to meet the requirements of this program.

If I lived in USA and had easy access to a fire arm I might just turn my self off and experience Peace Perfect Peace.

Ive made an appointment with the Dr. It is unlikely that will be able to help me with what I actually suffer from so I am thinking strategically it might be better to say I am suffering from depression/psychosis in order to try and get myself on the sick. If I am forced to do this program this will probably be the result anyway as constant cortisol has a negative effect on any ones brain.

Please by aware-I WANT TO DO THIS PROGRAM. But the people who run it are unable/unwilling to work with me, refusing to acknowledge that the problems that cause unemployment are intrinsically complicated preferring to insist that a 'one size fits all' approach can be used for everyone. I think one of the people who runs it have an RAF feel about them, so they are probably full of militaristic virtue and belief in a regimented application of a hegemonic schedule in the curing of all of societies evils.
BTW- the name of my disease is Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome. I doubt you've heard of it, but its a real thing

Thing is - I couldn't fall asleep at 3 and be up at 7 night after night.

I just couldn't.

Perhaps that makes me weak compared to others - I just don't know. I do know I did it by mistake last week.

All day I felt shaky, trembly, irritable. I cried on the way home. I had dark thoughts relating to suicide, irrational thoughts about putting DD into care and moving to Wales (!) and felt life wasn't worth living.

A good nights sleep and I was fine.

I now genuinely wonder if I'm odd, but I know two nights of that would see me deformed!

Well i'm afraid i dont agree that OP's sleep disorder provides no let up. She isnt currently working and has her mum to sort her DD in the mornings so she can go to sleep at 3am and sleep as late as she needs to the next day. There isnt anything stopping her getting 8/9/10 hours sleep every day right now and for as long as she has been unemployed.

Ds has delayed sleep phase disorder too. He's had it for years in fact he's probably had it from birth because he has never slept typical hours. He's still managed to go to school and college in spite of settling down to sleep at about 4am each day. As someone who rarely sleeps four hours a night because of insomnia induced by years of ds's inability to sleep then I think YABU to not take on a course that starts at 9am. Tomorrow ds leaves for college at 7.10am if he sleeps tonight he'll have about 2 and a half hours but quite often he doesn't sleep when there is an early start.

Surly

She isn't choosing to go to sleep at 3am.

parrot if one night of disturbed sleep caused that reaction in you, I'd advise you to speak to someone - it's not a 'normal' reaction to a night of disturbed sleep at all.

So if this is a genetic condition have you always had it? Have you ever worked? How did you cope when dd was a baby?

I grew up somewhere MUCH more remote and much less touristy than Cornwall and had jobs in bars / shops etc which would suit your needs and didn't drive then (was a teenager) and so just had to find my own way there because, well, that's what you do.

I'm sorry you're atruggling and lack of sleep is, literally, torture but you need to be more proactive and instead of inventing excuses you need to find out what CAN work for you.

Also you haven't answered I don't think the poster above who said it seems it can be changed with behavioural techniques?

Diagnosing a genetic condition yourself seems bizarre.

Fwiw I really struggle with sleep, and am mostly knackered.

Thank you for your concern but I'm not worried. I have always been the same where sleep is concerned - any depression is always linked to lack of sleep.

I just know that I could not function on 3-4 hours a night; I couldn't.

parrot what did you do when Dd was a baby? Have you been to the GP because that is really not about being weaker than anyone it's actually quite a worrying reaction.

I think scremersford is on to something.

Ok so you ordinarily have depression?

Have you ever had a job, OP?

However it would appear OP choosing not to consider any employment rather than one that started say, lunchtime. It is not a condition that would stop someone working, just look for a job that didn't require a start at 9am.

When DD was a baby I got more than 4 hours sleep :)

It might be broken, eg bed at 9 woken at 11 woken again at 2 and so on but I got a decent amount of sleep.

It's normal for me. I generally am a very 'good' sleeper and go to sleep easily, go back to sleep if woken easily, wake up smiley and happy and so on. But if for whatever reason I cannot drop off until the early hours I feel it the next day!

Theres an international manual called DSMV which contains all of the universally recognised mental health conditions. Generally, diagnosis with one of those means your condition is recognised. Its just been revised, and the preceding version was very comprehensive and if its not in the new version there will be very good reason for it. Depression for example is a clinical condition recognised under DSMV and it also contains the recognised diagnostic factors. I don't know whether Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome is included in it or not. I suspect not. Perhaps someone could clarify. Munchausens, and Munchausens by Proxy are included in DSMV.

I know how anxious insomnia can make you but as with many conditions, a desire to recover and to do things (including those things which can help you, such as attending a sleep clinic) can make life a lot easier.

Surly

She isn't choosing to go to sleep at 3am.

thats right. Not sure of your point. Or why you are directing it at me.

CoteDAzur - I had this issue with sleep long before modafinil. And since I have started taking it I have been able, to a large extent ,insulate myself from unwholesome behaviours that fatigue left me suceptable to.

There are times when perhaps it does not help. But on the times it does help its a game changer.
btw- with childcare my mom is a big help

Thanks skipton (and Garrick earlier) circadian rhythms are a really, really cool niche thing to know about I find. I don't use that knowledge much these days but I enjoyed acquiring it.

Modafanil is dangerous stuff. It is basically a lot like speed neurochemically. You have already had a recognised severe side effect. It is crazy to risk that again.

Melatonin you can get prescribed in the UK. Maybe not very easily but you can and it is a hell of a lot safer than modafanil since its a natural substance. It's OTC in the US as they don't consider it a drug.

If you don't turn up to the programme I guess you get your benefits sanctioned?

Looks like your choices are:

Turn up, try, see how it goes you may be able to negotiate when you get there
Don't turn up, get sanctioned, take the financial hit
Turn up for now, see the GP asap and try again to get a referral for the sleep disorder, a melatonin script, a CBT referral or a sick note or all of the above.

You come across very black and white in your thinking
Eg I am excused the course or I do the whole 6 months. Whereas is fact you might only have to make it as far as your GP appt

You can see how it looks from their side can't you? A whole lot of long term unemployed people have trouble getting out of bed due to ingrained bad sleep habits. You have nothing official to say that's not simply the case for you so they are going on that assumption.
From where they stand it looks reasonable.

Scremersford, it is (from circadiansleeprhythms.org)

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10-CM, 2014) lists 6 subtypes of circadian rhythm sleep disorder:"

delayed sleep phase type
free-running type
advanced sleep phase type
irregular sleep-wake type
shift work type
jet lag type
as well as unspecified, other, and conditions specified elsewhere.

.
The DSM-V defines Circadian Rhythm Sleep-Wake Disorder as follows:

A persistent or recurrent pattern of sleep disruption that is primarily due to an alteration of the circadian system or to a misalignment between the endogenous circadian rhythm and the sleep-wake schedule required by an individual's physical environment or social or professional schedule.

The sleep disruption leads to excessive sleepiness or insomnia, or both.

The sleep disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, and other important areas of functioning.

So far, posters on this thread have diagnosed OP with anxiety, depression, mania, psychosis and Munchausen's

Can we just cool it with the armchair Psychiatry please? It doesn't actually help anyone.

I am a mental health professional with years of experience assessing people for those conditions (among others) and I wouldn't be able to make those judgements from somebody's MN posts.

So iam it isn't a genetic condition then?

insanitiescatching- I have always had this condition. I was able to go to school and uni and get by. Then I was able to manage jobs which were brutal in the ammount of sleep they let me have. But as I have got older I have found it harder and harder to manage.

Why should anyone else be banned from consulting dr google when the OP's entire 'diagnosis' comes from there?

If you lived in the USA, you'd be dropped on your ass with no help and would be laughed out of court for trying to apply for disability. Also, our guns aren't sold in vending machines as people like to imply.

But that said... Can you get a doctor to write a note or testify on your behalf that this is a serious condition. What about temp work? Surely they have graveyard shifts to restock or set up displays in the UK?

Not that i'm aware of pob, but my sleep pattern knowledge is minimal

Surely the answer to this is simple.

A) Get diagnosed because frankly no one will believe you and why should they?
B) Get a job that suits your sleep patterns.

BTW my Mum has a disease that affects her sleep pattern. She could find no job to suit those hours. She became self employed as an evening office cleaner and it works fine.