to think being a paedophile isn't a crime?

[KissingFish]

I see posts from people both on here and other places (Facebook) about how paedophiles should all be killed and confusing the terms paedophile and child molester / child abuser.

They're not the same thing and honestly I don't think being a paedophile is a crime. It is a sexual orientation that nobody chooses to be born with. The same way people are born straight or gay.

Just because someone is a paedophile it doesn't mean they have acted on it and so it doesn't mean they are a child molester.

Surely if we all accepted that paedophilia is a sexual orientation we could help these people before they commit a crime. Before they act on it. I bet there are a LOT more paedophiles out there than we know about. They just don't act on it because they know it's wrong to act on it.

I am of course not saying being sexually attracted to children is a good thing or that it should ever be OK to act on it. No way. Just that I don't think people choose to be a paedophile and it must be pretty scary to realise you are attracted to children. Much the same way it used to be about being gay. And I don't imagine you can just ask friends, family or many people actually for help and advice.

I think in order to deal with a problem you need to understand it first.

I am willing to be convinced otherwise though if anyone has a good argument?

Disclaimer: I am not a paedophile, I just don't believe they are all evil.

I agree OP. I remember reading an article (I think written by Libby Purvis) many years ago where one of her friends knew that her husband was a paedophile. He didn't act on his feelings and was deeply, deeply ashamed of them. His wife was aware that he had these feelings but pitied him because there was no way for him to access help or treatment. He had never abused a child or viewed child pornography and he hated the part of himself that desired children in this way but there was nowhere for them to turn for help.

It's a really difficult issue as we have to be so careful to avoid normalising paedophilia but I would really like to see intervention / treatment programmes to help people cope with these feelings, rather than waiting for them to offend and possibly destroy a child's life in the process.

I would absolutely disagree with ever considering viewing paedophilia as another sexual orientation. The stigma should never be lessened, pro paedophile groups would love that. Inching their way closer to being accepted.
And I don't feel pity for anyone who is a paedophile, struggling every day not abuse a child. If someone had sexual feelings for a child, they should be instantly overridden by feelings of disgust and revulsion. Any adult not instantly repulsed by those thoughts I would argue is dangerous.

Totally agree with you OP.

To expand on it slightly, or to veer off slightly, I get snippy when the word pedophile is misused in the media. To the best of my knowledge, if you are a man who is attracted to a 15 year old girl, who is sexually mature, you are not a pedophile. You are wrong to groom her or have sex with her even if she seems to want to with no grooming (say she approaches you in a cafe, for instance) so it is still legally wrong to act on any feelings you have, of course. But I thought a true pedophile was exclusively attracted to non-sexucally mature children to the exclusion of all others.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong - I don't mean "in your opinion" but if there is some proper psychological or legal definition I am ignorant of. Someone in the business of these legal definitions told me that though and its grated me since when the term is misused.

Whilst I can see the point the OP is making generally, I cannot possibly agree with it being viewed as a sexual orientation like being gay. That is offensive.

I would consider it to be a "disorder" and accept that people not acting on their preferences and controlling themselves aren't committing a crime.

Horribly offensive to compare being gay with being a paedophile. Ability to give consent, vulnerability of the 'object of desire', active or passive participation to the widespread abuse of children worldwide... so many many differences with an sexual orientation that is between peers, just as heterosexuality.

Do you honestly think that recognising it as a sexual-orientation is the way to go? This is the path to empathy and normalisation, lobbying, reduced sentences and relativism. I do not want that for paedophiles.

I do not feel pity for paedophiles, active or not. I feel revulsion and hatred.
Even classifying it as mental health problem is delicate.
It should be treated as carefully as extremely violent tendencies.

Here, the potential victims are infinitely more important than them.

I agree with you to an extent op but I do think that many child abusers are not actually "attracted" to children, they are sexually aroused by power. I don't like it being called "a sexuality" or likened to homosexuality because there can be no consent. Calling it a sexuality would be the same as calling being a rapist a sexuality in my opinion. It's basically the same thing and comes down to being aroused by harming/having power over others which I would say is a mental illness. It's just plain wrong and evil.

Paedophila isn't a sexual orientation. It's a paraphilia.

It's a very dangerous road to class it as an orientation - we have an age on consent for a very good reason, I.e. Children cannot consent to sexual activity until a certain age, and this allows us to protect them legally.

The argument that it's an orientation is incorrect. you simply cannot compare it to, say homosexuality. One is forcing sex onto those too young to consent and one is two adults consenting. Totally different.

I do agree we should have mechanisms whereby those who are attracted to children can be treated and that the thought is not the act. But we cannot normalise sexual attraction to children by classing this as an orientation.

Worra, If you think back to caveman days, they most likely were having sex with kids as soon as they grew pubic hair/had periods and that would have been anything from 9yrs old upwards.

It's only because of good diets from infancy that puberty has started younger (though in some South American countries this is due to excess hormones in the drinking water).

Perhaps the 'Cavemen' society just allowed teenagers to be teenagers and had initiation rights so that both would get together in controlled circumstances (like a teenage disco, that no longer seems suitable). We have lost that in society.

Are you all saying that because that sexual inclination is about children, then these people have desires much stronger than any other sexual desires that we all have, so strong threy can hardle control these desires and it will make their life hell?

But most people aren't saying it's an orientation. They're saying they think it's a mental illness.

Are you saying you don't think it must be worse to look at children and want to harm them, than look at an adult of whatever gender floats your boat and want to have a healthy, mutually-fulfilling, consensual involvement? Seriously?

I have heard some points of view that fantasising about a person without their consent is a form of abuse.

To the best of my knowledge, if you are a man who is attracted to a 15 year old girl, who is sexually mature,

Or, of course, a woman attracted to a 15 year old boy, since it happens.

The word there is Ephebophilia notice the massive difference.

Skiptonlass said it all, really.

I don't agree that paedophilia is a sexual orientation. It's perverse because children cannot consent and it just can't be compared with being homosexual where you will have relationships on a level playing field.

Perverse sexuality is one of the traits of psychopathy. People like this are turned on by anything perverse. And there are far more psychopaths around than people realise.

So I think it's important to realise how those things often go hand in hand. I am not saying that all paedophiles are psychopaths but it would be dangerous to assume they are all normal people who happen to be attracted to children.

I cannot possibly agree with it being viewed as a sexual orientation like being gay. That is offensive.I would consider it to be a "disorder" and accept that people not acting on their preferences and controlling themselves aren't committing a crime

But we just don't KNOW. If it is a sexual orientation then it would be compared to ALL orientations and not just being gay.
To control themselves and not act on it surely needs some help?

And I don't feel pity for anyone who is a paedophile, struggling every day not abuse a child. If someone had sexual feelings for a child, they should be instantly overridden by feelings of disgust and revulsion. Any adult not instantly repulsed by those thoughts I would argue is dangerous

Why would you not feel pity for someone who struggles? If they are managing to 'control' these feelings it must require a lot of effort. How do you know they do not feel disgust and revulsion? It is possible they do.
We can judge an act - but surely not a feeling?

Does the OP actually understand the internal damage done to children who are attacked by sexual intercourse?

Bowels, bladder, prostate, uterus, ovaries, large intestine injury all occur. Just for sexual gratification.

'calling it a sexuality would be the same as calling being a rapist a sexuality in my opinion.'

Exactly^, because they 'can't help what arouses them' either can they?

This ^

I agree with Sock. It's not a sexual orientation, it's a power and abuse thing.

Because of this, all the posts about fetishists quietly keeping their thoughts to themselves are irrelevant. I agree that it is a fetish - but no fetish that involves manipulating and/or hurting other people (or animals) is acceptable.

I've visited 'child love' forums: the public ones, not hardcore. Their introductions are all about loving children's innocence, natural joy and so on. When you get into the threads, members are exchanging grooming stories and arranging to bring their kids to one another.

They reminded me of folks who say they love natural beauty, and show it by building a car park on the meadow. (Not a very good metaphor, but I find it impossible to understand those who set out deliberately to damage what they say they love.)

ItsMine I disagree. Rape is about power, not sexual attraction.

I don't think it is a matter of sexual orientation either.

There is not a chance in hell that society will stop demonising paedophilia here. In some other countries child abuse is rampant, such as the middle east. It is not uncommon for very young girls to be 'married' off completely legally aged seven etc. It is sickening.

The moment a paedophile views an image of a child or finds another way to express desire it then becomes a crime. Instantly. I think the temptation must be too great in a world where you do not even need to leave your house to access it.

A service should be offered (in the same way std clinics are run) for people to find treatment completely anonymously if we want to seriously tackle the issue. There are treatments available, and it would greatly reduce the risk to children if patients were encouraged to deal with this problem head on, we all find it quite repulsive and difficult to talk about so nothing much is ever done.

YY re rapist analogy.

Of course, just to clear the waters here, being anything isn't a crime.

There is no law against being a murderer. Or a thief. Or a rapist.

We have laws prohibiting all of these acts. But as yet, no laws against thinking about them. We do not seek to make mirrors into mens souls.

Yet.

I've heard it all now, haven't I?

It's just like saying being a rapist is a sexual orientation because you can't help wanting to shag others against their will.

Oh and humans are programmed to control their feelings. That's why we have a high functioning mind.

I think there is a difference between paedophiles and then child abusers and rapists.

I was abused by a man that was happily married for the 2nd or 3rd time. It turned out after it all came out that he was very active in the swingers scene with his wife. He was also involved in bestiality. And obviously, child abuse. He went a step further than your oppurtunistic abuser in that his abuse went on for almost a decade and happened several times both before and after the sex offenders register was created. His abuse was not centred on any one child, rather he liked them of all ages and types. Also didnt matter if it was his step daughter, family friend or even his biological child. Any girl was fair game. And he doesn't see what he has done wrong. At all, in fact, we are all liars. I don't doubt for a second that he has some very extreme mental issues. Its not a case of "he is attracted to children" because he blatantly got off on having power and control over us and told us in great detail about the things he did to his wife. He would take risks and seemed to believe that nobody would ever find him out and we would ever tell. He would do it while his wife was downstairs making tea, make crude whispered suggestions to me while my parents were 6 ft away from me having a conversation just out of ear shot.

People like him can not be helped. But somebody that can acknowledge the feelings and seeks help, I think they should be offered it. Surely dampening their sex drive down and monitoring them has to be better than allowing them to seek out others with the same issues and letting them get on with it?

Certain crimes need to be taken way, WAY more seriously too. Punishment is not enough as it stands.