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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised the lady that stabbed the paedophile got 3 and a half years?

183 replies

m1nniedriver · 29/09/2015 17:51

Just that really. I thought she would get longer. The world is a better place without him but still .... She murdered him.

OP posts:
LieselVonTwat · 29/09/2015 21:39

Senpai I think the point people were making is that if he was accused of abusing a child of hers, that wouldn't have been revealed. We don't know whether he did or not. We do know there's some pretty serious mitigation here though.

Ta1kinPeace · 29/09/2015 21:39

do people actually read the threads they post on?
just that the same points seem to come up every 15 posts...

LieselVonTwat · 29/09/2015 21:41

Count me as another who'd be very interested to hear the rationale for bailing him back to that address.

Booyaka · 29/09/2015 21:42

They've not said it was her child. But they haven't said it wasn't either. If it wasn't her child legally they would be free to say that it wasn't her child because that wouldn't identify her. But they haven't said it wasn't. If it was her child they wouldn't be able to say it was her child because that would identify them OR say that it wasn't her child because that wouldn't be true. They have done the latter.

fulldutypaid · 29/09/2015 21:44

If someone violated my only child I would almost certainly want to kill him too. I don't think control would come into it.

Shaffron · 29/09/2015 21:44

I would say that the life of a child abuser is worth less than, for example, innocent children.

And if the law and society believed and upheld that, then our children would be a lot safer.

fulldutypaid · 29/09/2015 21:48

Do people actually have to read everything Ta? why should you care? just read the ones the follow on for you then.

fulldutypaid · 29/09/2015 21:48

that....

Thelushinthepub · 29/09/2015 21:59

I don't understand manslaughter by loss of control- isn't all murder/ violence loss of control? Not heard of it before

LieselVonTwat · 29/09/2015 22:02

No, there are murders and other acts of violence that are totally planned and involve no loss of control at all.

Booyaka · 29/09/2015 22:09

^Voluntary Manslaughter > Loss of Control – Voluntary Manslaughter
This defence was newly introduced in 2010 and abolished the defence of provocation. Section 54 (1) of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 provides the following:

(1) Where a person kills or is a party to the killing of another D is not to be convicted of murder if

(a) D’s acts and omissions in doing or being a party to the killing resulted from D’s loss of self-control,

(b) the loss of self-control had a qualifying trigger, and

(c) a person of D’s sex and age, with a normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in the circumstances of D, might have reacted in the same or in a similar way to D.

The loss of self control need not be sudden, which can be seen as further broadening the scope of this defence in respect of victims of domestic violence or abuse. The defence however specifically excludes revenge attacks.

Section 55 of the CJA 2009 states that the following amount to qualifying triggers:

the defendant’s loss of self-control was attributable to the defendant’s fear of serious violence from the victim against the defendant or another person or,
the defendant’s loss of self-control was attributable to a thing or things done or said (or both) which:
(a) constituted circumstances of an extremely grave character, and
(b) caused D to have a justifiable sense of being seriously wronged or

the defendant’s loss of self-control was attributable to a combination of the above two triggers.
A fear of serious violence is to be disregarded to the extent that it was caused by something which the defendant incited to be said or done for the purposes of providing an excuse to use violence. Similarly a sense of being seriously wronged is not justified if the defendant incited the thing to be said or done for the purposes of providing an excuse to use violence. Furthermore a fact that a thing said or done constituted sexual infidelity is to be disregarded.

This element of the defence requires looking at the defendant in terms of how an ordinary person of the defendant’s sex and age would react. Furthermore it allows for all of the individual’s circumstances to be taken into consideration.^

Found the above, it very much appears to apply to this woman.

KatFleas · 29/09/2015 22:09

i think child molesters are worse than murder, you seem to believe different.
Murder is a wide spectrum whilst child molesting there is no excuses.
I never understand people who think murder is the worse crime possible, it isnt, rape is, do you think someone gets raped and just walk around all happy willy nilly like nothing happened?
I say GOOD on this woman, she deserves a medal.

Thelushinthepub · 29/09/2015 22:18

Thanks booyaka looks like I haven't heard of it as its a relatively new charge. Very interesting and Veey much made for this case

scarlets · 29/09/2015 22:25

With luck, she'll be released within the year. I hope she gets lots of practical and emotional support when that happens - she has lots of people on her side.

KourtneyK · 29/09/2015 22:32

Many abused children don't tell their parents because they are scared their parent would kill the abuser and end up in prison. :( Many abusers use this as a threat too. Horrific.

IAmNotAWitch · 29/09/2015 22:38

Shrug. I would kill someone if they abused my children.

If people don't want to risk being killed for abusing children then they could just not abuse children. Problem Solved.

UncertainSmile · 29/09/2015 22:41

Good riddance.

Sunsoo · 29/09/2015 22:53

So she will do more time in prison than he ever did?

I would do a day for her too. I hope she is treated well in there.

Senpai · 30/09/2015 05:25

Senpai I think the point people were making is that if he was accused of abusing a child of hers, that wouldn't have been revealed. We don't know whether he did or not. We do know there's some pretty serious mitigation here though.

Yes, I know that's what people were saying and implying.

Let's just for now pretend that it is her child that was abused. The kids already lost part of their childhood, and now because of her rash actions they're going to lose their mother as well. She landed them in a worse situation that they already were.

I don't understand how she "lost control" even if her child was abused, she went there with a knife. You don't go to someone's house with a weapon unless on some level you are prepared to cause physical harm with it. It was a crime of passion in the same way a man murdering his wife after catching her having an affair is. Just because your emotions are running high doesn't mean you really "lose control", she chose to stab him the first time instead of walking away.

If someone abused my child, yes I'd kill him too. I wouldn't be that blatantly stupid about it though.

Salene · 30/09/2015 05:30

I hope she is treated like totality in prison as she deserves it. I ask hope he had a long painful death and that he rots in hells

That woman is a hero.

Marilynsbigsister · 30/09/2015 06:34

I think the outcome was absolutely right. He was a life long paedophile. From what has been reported, he deliberately hid his real name by deed poll. The necessary checks weren't completed. The authorities reason that they had 'just cause' to search the sex offenders register were done. (His crimes predates the register so he didn't show up) however the police didn't do a PNC (police national computer) because they didn't have 'just cause' - try and work that out. The cps then have to run a 'public interest case' and have obviously searches high and low to find a law which allows murder of these heinous individuals to be tried at the more lesser crime of manslaughter by means of 'loss on contro' where a judge has discretion for a minimal sentence. Yeh judge !!!

badgergirl82 · 30/09/2015 06:37

It's not about his life being 'worth' something.

What I am trying to explain is that once we state that explicitly (through a reduced sentence) it's shaky ground.

'It doesn't matter - he was a child abuser.' Fine.

What if that turns into 'it doesn't matter - he was a burglar.' OK, some might say.

But then have we got 'it doesn't matter, he wasn't a criminal but a general unpleasant piece of work?' Not so fine. 'It doesn't matter, he has a disability?' Definitely not fine.

The law is always going to allow for mitigating circumstances. Stealing through desperation - ok; stealing through greed, not so much. However, I can't condone turning up at someone's door with a knife.

Is it really hard to imagine this happening again and someone claiming 'well I thought he'd done it ...' Who remembers the paediatrician who had their home ruined?

Once we start hinting such behaviour is acceptable, it becomes so.

KeyserSophie · 30/09/2015 06:41

As badger says, the problem is that whilst most people in the UK are doing a secret little fist pump in this particular set of circumstances, it does set a frightening precedent, because who decides what crimes are worthy of death and what's the required burden of proof. Everyone's sliding scale will be different and the law states that no crime is punishable by death.

Whoknewitcouldbeso · 30/09/2015 06:42

She's going to be a bloody hero in prison!

badgergirl82 · 30/09/2015 06:50

I daresay she will, but she's still in prison and not at home with her children.

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