To not see the big deal about Jewish and Muslim dc wearing red disks

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www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-school-forces-muslim-and-jewish-pupils-to-wear-coloured-discs-a6669396.html

So basically it stops dc being given food they can't have at lunchtime and no way imo can it be compared to the yellow star.

I might be biased in that I am a school cook and before that a nursery cook where every dc had a placemat with their photo and dietary preference. Schools don't do this instead we have a list with photos on and what they can't have but we have had near misses with jelly for example. A child who couldn't have the jelly asked for the jelly knowing they couldn't have the jelly and luckily as soon as the server put the jelly on the plate the child said but I'm not allowed this it's not halal and she had a fresh new plate of food.

Something for the cooks to see in primary schools to avoid mix ups is a great idea. The only problem I see with what the French have done is not to do it for all dietary requirements like allergies and intolerances

I think those who think it's ok are not the majority in the uk and will be only those with a very poor grasp of history and current circumstances of minority groups in France or racists of course.

Malaguena I don't have time to answer fully as nursery is on strike vive la France! but I do have French Muslim friends yes, I live and work in a town that is 80% Muslim. Nadine Morano is a well-known rentagob fruitloop, they do wheel her out for shock effect soundbites, kind of like the Today programme interviews Nigel Farage. I'm not denying there's a problem with racism, I'm just not sure it's that much worse than the situation in Britain.

I'm not surprised it caused an uproar.

For all France is a secular republic, Catholicism is deeply embedded in the culture. The secular schools out DC have attended all adhere to "fish on Fridays", not seemingly aware of that tradition's Catholic base.

twist I think it's more socially acceptable to be racist here (and the FN do get a lot of votes in some areas) but on the whole I agree with you. I live in a small town in SW France with a large and well-integrated Muslim population.

Most of the local councils here are left wing not FN though which makes a big difference. I have friends living on the Med coast around Beziers and Nimes who report very different attitudes.

sorry malaguena missed your second question about Halal eaters. Like I said upthread, dietary info is up on a wall at nursery - Sofiane and Nail don't eat pork, Alex is veggie and so on - and no-one turns a hair.

Anti semitism is far worse in France.

Thing is mistigri there are parts of the UK where it's equally socially acceptable to be racist. I have family in Preston who come out with stuff that would make your hair curl.

^^ and the reason the UK doesn't have far-right councils like here in France is more to do with the electoral system than electoral makeup IYSWIM.

twist yes, that may well be fair, it probably does depend on where you are, and it's a long time since I lived in the UK. I do still think that it is more acceptable to voice racist opinions here, at least towards people of North African origin. When we first moved here I found it quite shocking to hear casual racist comments from basically good people who bizarrely in their real lives appear not to be racist at all. (My old neighbours could sound quite racist at times yet welcomed their grandson's Muslim partner into the family with open arms).

Swipe card that sits at the end of the counter that lets the staff know there's halal meals required ? There's got to be an easier way . I totally disagree with marking kids out however France appears to get away with things in the e.u that the u.k doesn't! Funny that!

I've just finished reading Simon schama's "Story of the Jews - finding the words". Not an easy read, but one of the things that stands out is that the practice of marking out Jews with special badges, clothes etc has been going on in Europe on and off for at least 900 years, so the deeply unpleasant connotations are well ingrained. It's surprising those looking to introduce this idea can be so culturally unaware.

Where I live - in Paris - many Jews (though not my DP and DSSs) choose to mark themselves out with clothing.

Really bobo? I guess that illustrates how local these things can be (twist's point above). Where I live, although a minority of older adult Muslim women wear a headscarf, it's unusual to see a young person wear one. I have never seen "Jewish" dress here although there is an orthodox community in a nearby city where this would be more common, and when I lived in London there was a large ultra-orthodox Jewish community who were easily identifiable by their dress. The point is that wearing a religious mark or badge should never be obligatory.

I agree wearing a religious mark should never be obligatory.

However wearing a badge for lunchtime only when others are wearing badges as well shouldn't be an issue.

Where I live headscarves are the preserve of young and/or rich Muslim women. Older Muslim women (40+) wear standard Western fashions.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think it's sad that they choose to label the kids when it's the food they should be labelling. Isn't that far far easier?

A local primary (not my children's), has the children choose their meal at the beginning of the week and then passes out coloured wristbands to show which meal the child should be given. Blue=fish, Red= meat, Green=vegetarian, etc. The schools here are bursting to capacity and they are struggling to find ways to speed up the queues and get as many children as possible through as quickly as possible. No one is offended. I think intentions and practicality matter. Perhaps given history, wristbands are more comfortable than badges. Small changes can make all the difference.

Lots of headscarves here, young and old, and a fair few full Islamic veils. Lots of older women in traditional Algerian / Kabyle costome complete with facial tattoos. Lots of women, young and old, in boubous. And a fair sprinkling of kippas.

I agree, the poor children forced to eat vegetarian/kosher/whatever food, it's just like child abuse

Very flippant! However, I think forcing religious beliefs on children is a form of abuse. The child is made 'different' by the parents, who then do not want them to wear a label to identify their dietary requirements so the school can make sure they do not 'offend' them by offering restricted foods when dealing with large numbers of children many with different requirements.
The only reasons for restricted diets should be health reasons.

However wearing a badge for lunchtime only when others are wearing badges as well shouldn't be an issue.

and do you have to wear it? or you only have to wear it to get the special meal?

The secular schools out DC have attended all adhere to "fish on Fridays", not seemingly aware of that tradition's Catholic base.

well, yes. Sometimes it's hard to separate religion from culture. of course it might be religiously based, but it could be cultural now.

The problem with french secularism is that they practice it with a religious fervour. They force it down everyone's throat, so of course they look like hypocrites come lunchtime on friday. It is unlike the far superior (IMHO) american secularism where the government simply stays out of it and people are free to do practice their religion.

I think forcing religious beliefs on children is a form of abuse. The child is made 'different' by the parents

Well, yes, but if the parents are kosher/halal and they don't impose those restrictions on the child, the child is now "made different" from his parents - which will likely upset him more.

As a very secular Jew I don't find it abusive at all to have one's child eat the same diet as one chooses for oneself on religious grounds - it seems to me to be in the same league as choosing branded cereal over own-label in the supermarket, however flippant that sounds: "In this family, we believe in Frosties, goddammit!"

However, I do get upset/concerned when I see very young girls in headscarfs, so I'm as much a hypocrite as anyone.

"Where I live - in Paris - many Jews (though not my DP and DSSs) choose to mark themselves out with clothing."

So? There is a difference between proudly and opening choosing to identifying yourself as Jewish/Muslim/anything and feeling forced to.

"I think forcing religious beliefs on children is a form of abuse. The child is made 'different' by the parents."

This is what my teenager says when referring to the fact that I won't allow her to have a smartphone.

It definitely shouldn't be forced. It's too similar to forcing people of the Jewish faith to wear the star of David.