Very noisy children upstairs (boys ages about 7-9 yr old) need advice please!

[cassidyz]

My boyfriend and I live underneath a family of four with two boys, ages 7-9. Due to the construction of the split level flat, it is noisy whenever they are in but sometimes the noise reaches unbearable levels and communication has broken down between myself and the mother. I wanted some advice from parents to understand where I stand on this issue.

The problems start in the weekday mornings when the boys wake up at 7am and play loudly (banging, running, shouting) until they run down the stairs for school at 8am. They return at around 3.30pm and recently they have been coming home alone and play very loudly into the evening. The weekends are the same, sometimes with extra children. I work late nights as a waitress so if I get to bed at 3am and am woken up at 7am, the following day is ruined for me by tiredness.

To clarify, my definition of loud noise is the kind that shakes the walls and picture frames and can be felt physically when, for example, I am sitting reading.

I used to text the mother to let her know when it was getting too much and she used to apologise and I would hear her telling them to be quiet. Recently, however, she has turned defensive and refuses to consider our polite requests and asks me to stop 'harassing' her. I feel as though my boyfriend and I are too forgiving and should not allow her children to rule our lives.

Could someone offer some advice on this? The next step for me would be to pursue it with her lettings agent (they are tenants). I have lived underneath different people for the last 5 years and never once had issues as bad as this and my friends are shocked at the noise when they visit.

Maybe you should consider moving. At any rate, stop hassling by text - it isn't working. Check out the sound insulation insulation to ensure it's legal/adequate.

Stop texting her. Could be interpreted as hassling her. Go through official channels to complain

Have you ever spoken with her directly about this?

From desk research, I suspect sound proofing probably wouldn't be that effective in your situation. I don't think you'd be obliged to do work to get it up to current regs either (assuming conversion before regs in place).

YANBU.

Of course theres always going to be some noise in flats/terraced houses. But it cuts both ways, they need to show some consideration.

Running and jumping to the extent that your flat is shaking is too much.

I would complain officially.

Do you own or rent?

We own.

I thought she might prefer texting to formal complaints but its true, it isn't getting us anywhere, so I will communicate anything with the lettings manager from now on.

I had the reverse of this. My neighbour below used to bang on the ceiling whenever I put my baby (9 months old at the time) on the floor to crawl. One day she sent the police to me early in the morning because he was kicking in his cot.I was on the verge of a breakdown and we moved out into a caravan. I will never live in a flat again.
I think some flats just aren't suitable for young children really, no matter how hard you try to keep them quiet, and I tried very hard.

I feel for you - but I have been on the other side of this and had written complaints about my crying baby. So - I will try to be impartial!

It is horrid for you and stressful - but she is your neighbour and you need to get on - the texts are obviously not working. Remember that with text/ written word there is huge room for lack of understanding of tone and manner. If she is already anxious/ stressed about you and your feelings she will read any text in a stressed out way. That is obviously happening now.

I think you should start again - why dont you send her flowers/ a small gift and say sorry we seem to have got onto bad terms - you are my neighbour I would like to listen to your feelings on this so we can move forward. Then explain calmly that you work late and would it be possible to reduce noise in the early morning. Then - you can also say that it's not their fault but the building carries noise very badly and she needs to come and listen.

Be peaceful and graceful - it will get you further!

Its a shit situation - my neighbours were so unhappy with us but I was in tears of stress over their letter - I couldn't stop my baby crying! But I also can feel for them and their stress.

I honestly think that if you live in a flat this is the downside. sell?

I really really don't reccomend you go to the lettings manager ! that is such a path to conflict. She will interpret that as massively threatening - you are essentially reporting her to someone who has the power to move her from her home!!!

You need to restore good feeling - what about mediation?

I hate to say it but it does sound like the mother has done all she could and it hasn't stopped you complaining. From what you're saying it sounds like just normal activities create a lot of noise in your flat. I think there is a fundamental difference in your lifestyle which means you are poorly suited as neighbours. Her children have to get up and go to school, that is a non-negotiable. I think any noise complaint would be unlikely to succeed unless they were actually doing something unreasonable like jumping off furniture.

I hate to say it, but I think the best solution might be for you to move. Because if it is the case that the construction of the building amplifies normal noise in your flat I really can't see how she could reasonably be expected to accommodate your need to sleep late other than by not sending her kids to school which she obviously can't do!

Thanks for comments - it is especially useful to hear from those of you who have been on the other side. However, I can't help but see a huge difference between crying/crawling babies and 7-9 year olds banging the floor.

I think you need to do a bit of investigating as to whether they are actually making unreasonable amounts of noise.

Unlike adults, children will be moving about a lot, laughing, running etc. So if the previous tenants were adults and out most of the day you may not have had the issue.

Ever seen the episode of Friends where Mr Heckles dies and they hear the noise from his flat?

its true that you need to look at things from both ways. You want them to come and hear the noise - but also you need to look at what is happening up there. children can be VERY noisy just being completely normal!

If you can build a good rapport with her again you are far more likely to get to a position where she will make changes and you can talk about further insulation - also have you tried really really good earplugs at night?

Remember that if she lives with two children any idea that someone is trying to get her kicked out (which is what she will think if you complain to the lettings agent) will really really make her stressed - not what you want if you want change and a good relationship.

The mother used to do what she could ask ask them to play quietly, which they seemed to do quite happily. However, a few months back I received a hostile reply and since then whatever the children feel like doing at whatever time of day happens.

I don't expect to sleep until 9pm every day.. it is more a matter of having quieter mornings where avoidable noise is reduced.

*and ask

It does sound as if a mediator would be helpful in this situation.

If things were better until a few months ago then it may be that the tone or volume of your texts rubbed her up the wrong way for whatever reason.

Also if you communicated that you wanted quiet until 9am at the weekends then I can sort of see why the DM went sod it that's not reasonable and gave up on trying to stop the texts.

I'm not sure who's right or wrong in this situation OP, but yes you really need someone else in to help sort it out.

Do you have downstairs neighbours? Have you contacted them to see what your noise sounds like to try to get a picture of that.

I had this problem with my DSSs (6 and 8). They made the most incredible noise in the morning and knew that when we moved in together it would have to be addressed because I live in a terraced house and wanted to stay on good terms with the neighbours. I got them to be quiet in the morning by saying they could have more screen time if they were quiet until 9am - worked a treat almost instantly!

Unfortunately without the mum's cooperation there's not much you can do. But on a practical note get a white noise app, they are so much more effective than ear plugs and it's very calming so might help you deal with the stress of banging and shaking. I think not knowing exactly when the noise is going to start is part of the problem because you're always in a state of anxiety wondering if an isolated bang will escalate into 3 hours of noise.

I doubt they are particularly noisy, they are just normal kids, and kids are noisy. Agree with PP - the mother is probably getting pissed off because she doesn't think they are being particuarly noisy. You need to insulate against the noise. I can't see another way round it

Oh.just saw you name changed OP.

What did the text say that resulted in the hostile reply?

OP - the advice I have given you in my previous post is based on my experience as an Env Health Officer and past member of the institute of acoustics so I do know what I am talking about.

binkybix is wrong. you can definitely be required to bring the property up to building reg standards with regards to sound insulation - both airborne and impact. This can be done by legal notice. this is why I am suggesting you pay for the tests so that the results are for your eyes only.

to those suggesting mediation, again in my experience this has gone way beyond this. OP you have to stop texting her, this is harassment. you have to decide either it is such a big problem that you get it tested or move or you put up with it.

tilly what I'm noting from that last post is that the mother was asking them to be quiet and making an effort but you were still complaining to her. I think possibly you have rather brought this on yourself, because the mother was doing what she could and you continued to complain to her. I think quite a lot of people facing that would come to the point where they would just think 'Sod you then, I make an effort and you still complain so I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb':

I will definitely stop texting - I wrongly thought that was a more friendly way around this!

Thanks mummymeister, I will look into this. I have tried to audio record in case it is needed but it doesn't sound nearly as bad as it does in real life so it would be good to get an unbiased assessment.

Booyaka, I kind of expected that over time the mother might realise when the boys were making noise and prevent it without my intervention. I don't take pleasure in texting but often she is in a different room while we are suffering downstairs so I didn't see another way around it.

I'd still be interested in what your text said - the one that triggered the negative response. Because if it was suggesting that she keep kids quiet until 9am at weekends I can kind of see why she just gave up!

tilly1992 you need to find someone to do an airborne and impact sound insulation test. you will need to get the cooperation and agreement of your neighbour to do this. start on the web by finding someone who is a member or associate of the institute of acoustics who will offer both of these tests and get a quote. you want a full structural report done, not just the bare test results.

then when you have worked out who can do it for you and agreed a price, you need to talk to your neighbour face to face. explain that you realise that there might be an issue with the insulation and that you want to explore this at your own expense. the tests will take about half a day. good luck

Libraries, I texted her one morning to say there was some banging at 3am, like things were being thrown on the floor, (the boys bedroom is above us and this had happened on a few other occasions) and could she please investigate so it wouldn't happen again. She replied that it wasn't them because they were asleep and that they were allowed to be noisy from 6am so could I stop harassing her.

From the feedback on this thread, I understand how texting could cause stress. Personally, I would prefer if someone asked me to stop before complaining officially but this may not be the case for everyone.

My main question is how reasonable is it to ask to refrain from preventable and very loud, shaky noise, ie running, playfighting, jumping, playing on a keyboard, slamming doors/drawers, in early morning hours - either so I can rest or generally enjoy my home. I have compromised my life - for example I used to study at home and now I go to a library - so I feel I should get some in return.