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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder if there's any hope of a refund

28 replies

WhitePhantom · 23/09/2015 10:51

Hi,

A friend needed to buy some books for her ds for school last week. She didn't know how to do it so she called down to me and we got it sorted. One was a physical book from a website, and one was an ebook from iTunes to go on the iPad.

We had to enter her card details to buy the physical book (debit card, as she has no credit card). I can't remember whether we had to enter card details for the ebook download, as there was a bit of confusion in the process (was it this book or that one, what do we do here, do we get it through the app store or iTunes, etc). I do remember clearly that when I was setting up my DS's iPad we had no choice but to enter card details when creating his apple id. I couldn't find any way around it anyway, so I'm fairly sure she must have entered her card details when her DS's iPad was being set up but she's adamant she didn't.

Now her ds is after running up a bill on iTunes of £250 (he had downloaded free apps, but has since make in-app purchases which he apparently didn't realise were chargeable) and she's in major trouble - things are very tight and she really can't afford this. (I feel that she's partly blaming me, saying that her card details weren't on the iPad until we bought the books. That's not the point of my aibu but I'm a bit pissed off about it.)

So anyway, I'm trying to help her and I'm wondering if there's any way for her to try and recoup some of this. She says not, but maybe MN wisdom can tell me differently?

Thanks!

OP posts:
glenthebattleostrich · 23/09/2015 10:54

You can try appealing to apple I think.

As an aside, when I set up DDs iPad I didn't enter card details, I clicked to decline and got a message saying card would be required for any purchases.

LurkingHusband · 23/09/2015 11:55

we had no choice but to enter card details when creating his apple id. I couldn't find any way around it anyway,

You are forced to use a credit card to create the ID. However you can then immediately go into the account and change the payment method to "none".

The fact you can't set it to "none" from the off, implies Apple are trading on people - like your friend for some of their profit. I see it as similar to the situation that premium-rate numbers are not barred by default ...

Original poster
WhitePhantom · 23/09/2015 11:59

Thanks Glen, I didn't know there was a way of setting up an Apple id without entering card details. (Why didn't I notice a 'Decline' options when we set DS's up?!)

She probably did set it up without card details then, and they're only on it because I helped her. Shit. The implication that this is partly my fault is really annoying, and makes me feel like not helping people with stuff. I wasn't to know that her DS (12, by the way, not 5 or something) would make a whole lot of purchases!

She has texted me "All sales are final and no refunds" - I don't know whether she has talked to anyone in iTunes or has come to that conclusion herself.

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 23/09/2015 12:02

As an aside, when I set up DDs iPad I didn't enter card details,

When was that ? I had to create an ID for DS last week, and there was no way to proceed without a valid card. Googling suggested that Apple have moved (certainly in the UK) to enforce a card when creating an account. Probably to prevent scammers creating dummy accounts.

Shoxfordian · 23/09/2015 12:03

I think Apple will stop refunding issues like this soon because it seems to happen so often. Good luck but they may not refund her.

Your friend can turn off in-app purchases using the Restrictions section in the Settings and using a PIN. (Obvs don't tell the child the PIN!)

Original poster
WhitePhantom · 23/09/2015 12:05

Thanks LH, I just saw your post. That reassures me that I'm not losing the plot anyway - I was convinced that we weren't able to bypass entering card details!!

So her claim that she definitely didn't enter her card details can't be right then? The iPads were only bought in August.

OP posts:
Floralnomad · 23/09/2015 12:06

Although Apple do refund on occasions I would imagine she is on a sticky wicket as the child involved is 12 and quite frankly I would find it hard to believe that he didn't know he was buying stuff - if the child was 5/6/7 maybe but at 12 most children are very tech savvy . We never leave card details on any device or website it makes life way to easy to just buy stuff without giving it real thought ,I usually keep the apple account topped up with a card but never have more than £30 sitting on there to fritter .

Original poster
WhitePhantom · 23/09/2015 12:14

Thanks Shox and Flora.

I've told her about the restrictions option (bit late I know, but I passed it on anyway).

I find it a bit hard to believe that he didn't know they cost money too Sad

He made two purchases for £99 each, and a few for £11 / £12.

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 23/09/2015 12:15

Also, be wary of Google accounts - they try to get you to connect a card to your Play Store account.

It is possible to buy a pre-paid credit card for kids to use with such services. However my one was rejected when I tried to use it to create DS account last week, so maybe they are cracking down on them (or didn't like the £0 balance, despite promising that no money would be taken. Some card verifications now charge £0.01 to the presented card and immediately refund it, to check it is really valid).

TantrumsAndBalloons · 23/09/2015 12:24

I think a 12 year old must have known they were spending almost £100 per purchase.
I know Apple have refunded on multiple small transactions on in app purchases but I think it might be different in this case with the amounts and the age of the child.

Floralnomad · 23/09/2015 12:26

Wow, I thought you meant lots of little purchases as he was playing games ,to be buying things that cost that much he must have known what he was doing . I think your friend needs to be taking this up with her son not you .

yeOldeTrout · 23/09/2015 13:19

your reminding me, I bought an album for DD's iPhone last night & still haven't got the credit card details off there. ARGH. Fecking iTunes store.

Notasinglefuckwasgiven · 23/09/2015 14:24

Can I ask, is it games that cost that much? How can Apple justify 99 quid on an app?

LurkingHusband · 23/09/2015 14:25

How can Apple justify 99 quid on an app?

It's not necessarily Apple that write the app. But they do get 20% of it (and purchases made from it).

NHKX2 · 23/09/2015 14:32

Hmmm...I have my CC stored in iTunes, but for every purchase I have to enter my password. No exceptions. I can't remember if I set this up as an option for security or if it is a default security process. Do you know if she had the same and her son figured it out? I do agree with others that her son certainly knew he was spending money, and this is their problem not yours. You didn't cause this. She shouldn't expect a refund.

PansyGiraffe · 23/09/2015 14:41

I got an iPad last week and set up an Apple id without putting my credit card details in.

Floralnomad · 23/09/2015 14:47

I've just looked at 2 apps that I have on my iPad and on the Simpsons tapped out you can ( if you're an idiot) spend £79 on a pack of 2400 doughnuts and on Magic Puzzles you can buy puzzle packs for £40 , both in app purchases but both are very clear that you are spending money.

LyndaNotLinda · 23/09/2015 14:58

How has she had an i-pad for any length of time without an apple id? That doesn't make sense

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 23/09/2015 15:20

Family Guy has a £99 option, too. But it's clear that you are spending real money and it's for grown-ups, who I guess can spend that if they want too!

Your friend can contact Apple and explain, and they may refund the money. Alternatively, I'd be finding a way for the 12 year old to be earning some back, by taking it out of savings/getting him to do chores that save money like washing the car/selling some of his stuff. It's a harsh lesson, but he has to learn it and she needs to recoup some money.

She should try Apple, though. They might help. It'll depend on the pattern of purchases etc.

Notasinglefuckwasgiven · 23/09/2015 16:09

I still don't understand why digital items that don't exist cost 99 bucks......am I not understanding something?

LadySheherazade · 23/09/2015 16:14

You used to be able to set up an Apple ID with no card details - I did it about 7 years ago!

It is her fault, she should have set 'immediate password' on the ipad. There has been so many of these stories in the news, and even if they haven't, surely as a parent you should be clued up on how to use them?!

I guess Apple might refund her if she lays on the sob story but they certainly aren't obliged to.

LurkingHusband · 23/09/2015 16:19

FYI:

support.apple.com/en-gb/HT203905

m0therofdragons · 23/09/2015 16:19

My ipad is a work one and I set it up without entering card details 2 weeks ago but it does imply you have to put them in - you don't, you just press decline.

Original poster
WhitePhantom · 23/09/2015 16:23

Thanks everyone. She was on to Apple for over an hour and they're going to refund £200 of it.

I really can't make much sense of it. Apparently now it seems her XH created an account on something for their DS and was able to use the card details that were stored on the iPad after we bought the ebook. I don't know all the ins and outs of it.

The kids are using the iPad in school the last couple of weeks, so he definitely has an apple id. I just can't figure out how (or if) she managed to get that far without putting in card details. But either way, I only did what I could to help her, like she asked me to.

NHK - it must be something you've set up, because on my DS's iPad we don't have to enter any security info to make purchases - as we found out. He decided to download a game for £3, came and gave us the money, and got an earful for using it without consent. That was when I looked up how to remove the cc details. I trust him, but it's just waaay too easy.

Anyway, she says now she doesn't blame me, she's just pissed off that it happened.

OP posts:
Floralnomad · 23/09/2015 16:25

I think she can consider herself very lucky that Apple have been so reasonable .