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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be surprised that a scientist with a doctorate is religious

775 replies

Margaritapracataz · 22/09/2015 07:45

I assumed she was joking, but no she's a very intelligent woman (double first) but she has deeply religious beliefs.

Aibu to think this is a bit strange and to think less of her professionally?

OP posts:
MiddleAgedandConfused · 22/09/2015 08:21

I would argue the opposite - the more you learn as a scientist, the more you realise just how incredibly clever everything is and the harder it can be to believe that this all just sprung up out of cold rock.

SleepyForest · 22/09/2015 08:23

I think that the scientific method, the pursuit of an evidence base to establish a theory, is a different approach from religion. The best scientists question absolutely everything. This is the opposite of blind faith.

I think human beings are quite capable of holding opposing world views. Expecting people to be rational will always leave you disappointed.

BumWad · 22/09/2015 08:24

So you can't be intelligent and religious? You are being utterly ridiculous and unreasonable!

Spartans · 22/09/2015 08:25

Yabu. Completely.

I can't believe people still think it's ok to think less of someone because of their religion.

Fwiw I know scientists who believe their work is proof of a higher power. Because no matter how much we know about why conception happens (for example) it's still an amazing thing.

HaydeeofMonteCristo · 22/09/2015 08:27

Yabvu.

LadyPeterWimsey · 22/09/2015 08:29

Seriously, OP?!

Just counted 11 Science PhDs amongst my Christian Facebook friends.

Spartans · 22/09/2015 08:29

ariba the Catholic church now widely accepts that genesis didn't happen.

MothershipG · 22/09/2015 08:32

Sleepy has just said exactly what I was thinking.

I don't understand how people who do evidence based research can happily take the existence of a supernatural being on faith.

But the evidence suggest lots of them do Wink so I wouldn't think less of them professionally. Grin

araiba · 22/09/2015 08:34

"the Catholic church now widely accepts that genesis didn't happen."

I didn't know that

maybe they should release a new version of the bible with all the guff removed or corrected. some people still think what is in there is true

HaydeeofMonteCristo · 22/09/2015 08:34

When was it decided that all religious people are idiots?

hackmum · 22/09/2015 08:35

Middleagedandconfused: "the more you learn as a scientist, the more you realise just how incredibly clever everything is and the harder it can be to believe that this all just sprung up out of cold rock."

But it's one thing to say that everything is very clever and looks designed (though to be honest, there are all sorts of things wrong with the way the human body is "designed', for example) and quite another to accept the claims of a particular religion, such as God coming down to earth in human form, performing miracles, rising from the dead etc. Even by exercising a small amount of scientific scepticism, you can see how unlikely that is.

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 22/09/2015 08:36

How are they opposing?
if you believe in God then you prosioably can't get closer to him than respecting and studying his creation, as some one has said you are looking at the work of God. In fact many elements of science may actually lead to people to explore faith rather than drive people away from it. There's just so much that is as yet unexplained to the human mind.

And I actually find your implication that her intelligence means she shouldn't be religious offencive are only stupid people religious then it makes you sound stupid!

bulletpoint · 22/09/2015 08:36

i'm a creationist Christian, I must be stupid, including my 2 siblings with Phd's and DH who is also a scientist, not to mention our entire church all believe in the creation story. Yes we're all dumb!

wigglesrock · 22/09/2015 08:36

Arabia - the Catholic Church doesn't hold the Bible with as much weight as other Christian denominations - certainly not the Old Testament. It's viewed more as book of parables, stories that can be used to illustate. My kids go to Catholic primary school - they don't get taught that Adam and Eve were real or that Noah's Ark etc happened.

OP - I don't get the connection between in your example. I know lots of sorts of religious people they have all different types of jobs - teachers, cleaners, retail assistants, accountants, office staff even a scientist, a surgeon and a GP,not to mention a solicitor - they all seem to cope with it, maybe they're a bit more intelligent than you.

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 22/09/2015 08:44

-"Most mainstream religions endorse the theory of evolution araiba".

Certainly the Catholic church does."

maybe i need up on brush up on my religious books but I was fairly sure that in genesis God created man and woman with a metaphorical click of the fingers a few thousand years ago.

how does that compare to the millions of years of evolution we know about now?

or are the catholic church saying the bible is wrong?----

No not wrong more a bunch of morel stories, which it axtually always was, written hundreds of years after these events may or may of happened. And yes you do need to brush up on your religious books.
"Days" in the bible does not neccessarly mean days, as in 24 hours. We are in the last days waiting for the second coming, we have been for the last thousands of years.

Baring this in mind actually genisus does tally with what we know scientifically!

madhairday · 22/09/2015 08:45

Science and religion do not necessarily need to be held in stark opposition. Not a scientist myself (theologian) but my many scientist friends with religious faith testify to how intrinsically linked they can be and how science merely opens up this wondrous world further. I don't know any yec scientists.

I know a cosmologist, he blows my mind and he has a deep faith. He'd say his study merely reinforces and in fact deepens his faith. They don't need to be in contention.

Yabu.

overthemill · 22/09/2015 08:46

three openly religious scientists:

Frances Collins, currently the head of the US National Institutes of Health (and who wrote ' the language of god: a scientist presents evidence for belief');
Gerhard Etrl who won the Nobel Prize for Chemistry (2007)
William D Phillips who won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1997

YABVVVU

scientists and people generally come in all shapes and sizes, religion, sexual orientation, race, gender. Brian Cox (irritating man IMHO nonetheless) has openly stated that he doesn't believe science and religion are incompatible.

your suggestion that only one kind of person can 'do' science is ridiculous and would exclude so many people from science. We need to encourage diversity - more women and minorities generally in the sciences.

myself, I'm agnostic but joined an irritating family who sits on its high horse berating ignorant people who have faith in God because they are all scientists and know the True Way. As a social policy wonk, I recognise that Science is simply one of many ideologies like feminism, racism, communism, neoliberalism, etc

Creationism is a different class of thing and so long as scientists don't skew data to fit their beliefs the two are not incompatible

araiba · 22/09/2015 08:46

"i'm a creationist Christian, I must be stupid, including my 2 siblings with Phd's and DH who is also a scientist, not to mention our entire church all believe in the creation story. Yes we're all dumb!"

agreed

you believe in a story that has been comprehensively and repeatedly proven wrong- even the catholic church think youre wrong apparently

AsTimeGoesBy · 22/09/2015 08:50

YABVVU if you think less of someone professionally just because of their religion.

bulletpoint · 22/09/2015 08:50

"agreed

you believe in a story that has been comprehensively and repeatedly proven wrong- even the catholic church think youre wrong apparently"

I knew someone would come back with an intelligent answer like that Grin

BoskyCat · 22/09/2015 08:52

I know what you mean OP. I struggle with it a bit. I actually do try to respect people's religious feelings, but I can't find it in myself to respect their beliefs when they are not based on verifiable reality. That's OK, believe what you like, but to me it seems there is a clash when your life and career is about verifying reality, i.e. you are a scientist.

In a way it's selfish, because when I hear that someone (e.g. parent in DC class) is a marine biologist or geologist, I'm fascinated and think they might be my type of person and we could get on. (I'm not a scientist but in a related field and know a lot of scientists) Then when I hear they are also a Christian, I know they're not my type of person (at least on that one rather major issue) and I don't get it.

But I try to overcome that. I do have a friend who is a Christian and, while we'll never see eye to eye on that, I've learned a lot from her about what a literally broad church it can be.

hackmum · 22/09/2015 08:53

bulletpoint: "i'm a creationist Christian, I must be stupid, including my 2 siblings with Phd's and DH who is also a scientist, not to mention our entire church all believe in the creation story"

So despite being a scientist your DH doesn't accept Darwin's theory of evolution, which is the foundation stone of much of 20th and 21st century science. How does that work?

Naughttothreesadonions: ""Days" in the bible does not neccessarly mean days, as in 24 hours"

It cracks me up when religious people say things like this. Why would the people who wrote the Bible write "days" if they actually meant "years" or "thousands of years"? Why not be as clear as you possibly can be?

It smacks of making it up as you go along, doesn't it? If everything the Bible says can be interpreted as actually meaning something else, how reliable can any of it be?

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 22/09/2015 08:53

I give the book of Genesis great weight. Doesn't tell you anything about the mechanics of how the universe and us came into being though.

To be slightly charitable to the OP, it often does seem like science and religion are in opposition. This isn't helped by nutters like christians against dinosaurs (or whatever they're called) or Dawkins when he's ridiculing a whole religion based on the beliefs of those at the extremes.

There has been a massive transition over the last few hundred years. Before the enlightenment, in general, anything that wasn't understood was assumed to be of God. As we began to learn more God's role could be seen as being diminished, being left with the bits we still couldn't understand ('God of the gaps'). This did lead to a conflict between belief and science for many and still does (just look at how some christians in the US are still trying to push intelligent design). But I, and many other Christians don't see the world in that way. For me God is not in competition with science, fighting for the scraps of what we still can't explain. He is above all of that.

Alfieisnoisy · 22/09/2015 08:53

The two are not an either/or are they?

Plenty of very clever scientists are also religious. I don't see the issue personally.

All scientists know some things are not easily explained. Doesn't mean they can't be explained but equally doesn't mean they can be.

Not an issue as far as I can see.

araiba · 22/09/2015 08:54

"I recognise that Science is simply one of many ideologies like feminism, racism, communism, neoliberalism, etc"

no it isn't

science is about what is true and provable. The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it