Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be surprised that a scientist with a doctorate is religious

775 replies

Margaritapracataz · 22/09/2015 07:45

I assumed she was joking, but no she's a very intelligent woman (double first) but she has deeply religious beliefs.

Aibu to think this is a bit strange and to think less of her professionally?

OP posts:
Binkybix · 22/09/2015 14:15

I will admit to being jealous of the ready made community my Christian friend accesses where I live!

BartholinsSister · 22/09/2015 14:18

Science flies people to the moon, religion flies people into buildings.

IceBeing · 22/09/2015 14:18

I will admit to wishing I could believe in god....I suffer from depression and a nice bit of belief that someone loved me unconditionally and that if I was good, good things would happen to me would do me no end of good.

But I can't. I have never been able to believe in things...not Santa, not the tooth fairy and not god (in spite of spending all my childhood in and out of church).

I adhere to the idea that you cannot chose your belief status any more than your sexuality. Therefore to ridicule people on the basis of their belief status is the same as ridiculing them for their sexuality. Ie. unacceptable.

capsium · 22/09/2015 14:20

RiceBurner so according to your way of thinking, all religious people are suffering from mental delusion? Hmm There are quite a lot of us, what do you propose to do about this, as a (self professed) undeluded atheist? How do you propose we are treated ? I don't think I like the direction your thinking seems to be going.....

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2015 14:24

Science is evidence-based; religion is faith-based

BathshebaDarkstone · 22/09/2015 14:25

Boulevard true! But I don't believe it to be impossible that a Creator could have created the big bang. Does that make me stupid?

overthemill · 22/09/2015 14:32

riceburner so Nobel winning scientists have weak capabilities? How much more they could have achieved if they hadn't believed in God? Is that what you are saying, that belief in God holds you back intellectually? Or they have a psychotic delusion? It's just that you think they are wrong. Surely there is space for everyone to hold their own beliefs if it doesn't prevent them from undertaking their jobs accurately and safely. So in my opinion, a GP who doesn't agree with abortion for religious reasons should be able to practice but should make sure that they refer patients who may require an abortion to another GP in the same practice. I'm guessing that devote Jewish people may struggle to work on the Sabbath but could still be police officers and scientists who are Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish or Christian ( as examples) can still do a fine job as scientists of whatever discipline. It's not mutually exclusive in each and every case!

And I like an open mind.

Sorry been busy so not checking back

BertrandRussell · 22/09/2015 14:33

"the theory that BEST fit the evidence is a there they hadn't been fully proven.
What it says is that, at the moment, it looks like that's what happened."

Absolutely. If more evidence emerges, the theory has to change. Only religious people claim to have the absolute truth.

MrsRossPoldark · 22/09/2015 14:33

Skiptonlass: killing that isn't done in the name of religion is still killing. Just a different excuse. Doesn't make it any more acceptable.

BertrandRussell · 22/09/2015 14:35

"And I like an open mind."

So do I. That's why I could never be religious.

tomatodizzymum · 22/09/2015 14:35

Hmm YABU
Just because some athiests are scientists doesn't mean they all are. Also
those athiests have tried to say that religion and science are a direct contrast to each other, ave been heavily criticised and the fact that they know 0 about religion has been the topic of some great debates and books. I recommend them, they taught me a lot about religion.

Bumpsadaisie · 22/09/2015 14:35

Skiptonlass

And that's why I don't like religion. It tells you what's right and what to think, instead of encouraging you to doubt, and ask 'is this right?'

I see where you are coming from but this is simplistic. The bible is littered with examples of doubters, most famously the Apostle Thomas, and there are umpteen theologians in the scholastic tradition of St Thomas Aquinas. You can guess what I named my son in honour of these two!

Jesus didn't proselytise. He spoke in parables. Half the time there are 15 different ways to understand what he was saying and then some. In fact I don't think he could have chosen a less dogmatic way of teaching! The result is a series of teachings that mean all sorts of things to all sorts of people, across the ages.

IceBeing · 22/09/2015 14:35

capsium in some countries it is illegal not to declare a religion. Atheists are indeed treated as mentally defective and or put in jail.

tbh it mirrors the treatment of people by sexuality. Homosexuality used to be illegal...then as a society we decided that was horsecrap. Atheism has essentially been illegal in the past...now you can admit it but you can be discriminated against because of it.

Next stop is no discrimination on the basis of belief status!

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 22/09/2015 14:40

To be fair, capsium, it's quite hard to provide a cast-iron definition that distinguishes a religion from a mental delusion, I think?

If I tell you God is talking to me through my TV, you'd probably say I was deluded.
If I got 100 followers to also believe God talked to me through my TV, and to listen to his instructions via me, I'd be a cult leader, no?
If I got a miilion people to believe it, set up some schools, got a seat in the House Of Lords....?

What's the distinction? Is it longevity? Weight of numbers...?

TeaAddict235 · 22/09/2015 14:41

OP, I think that your statements are a reflection of how FEW doctorate scientists you actually know. The field is flooded with us them.

Go to the US, and they are like "Wow! you have a PhD in science and still DON'T believe in Jesus?" Confused

Abraid2 · 22/09/2015 14:44

I know two physicians at one of the most important physics centres who are practising Catholics. And also a high-flying consultant at a major teaching university who specialises in vaccines who's a Catholic. Plus several science teachers at secondary school.

Obviously they are all completely useless and lack judgment, according to the OP.

RiceBurner · 22/09/2015 14:45

capsium, I will admit that I am probably deluded about some other things. (We are all human/flawed.)

But religion just cannot be 'true'. (There are so many different ones and so many different interpretations for a start!) So where do you draw the line? Is only your religion not deluded? What about ALL other (crazy) beliefs?

We can only sort out what is true from what is not true by using reason and proof. But religion has no reason/proof, and the idea of "a god" is very unreasonable IMO.

Religious people try to explain why their god is good/clever/kind/loving, but somehow they can never quite manage to explain all the bad stuff. (Hence why they are deluded.)

Oh, and just because a lot of people believe in something, doesn't 'de facto' make it correct I think?

Abraid2 · 22/09/2015 14:46

Science flies people to the moon, religion flies people into buildings.

I am not religious. But in my town, it's the religious people who care for the homeless and the refugees. It's the priest who visits the sick and elderly in hospital, the people nobody else has time to bother with.

How offensive your view is to them.

capsium · 22/09/2015 14:49

IceBeing just shows you doesn't how universal and horrendous discrimination, of all kinds, can be, doesn't it?

Boulevard the distinction I would make is whether the belief has lead to dysfunctional behaviour. Because it is part of the human condition to have beliefs, make assumptions. You should not make generalisations with a diagnostic process, it has to be done individually, on a case by case basis.

BertrandRussell · 22/09/2015 14:49

"How offensive your view is to them"

Well, your view that only religious people care for others is pretty offensive........

Abraid2 · 22/09/2015 14:50

Read the post again, Bertrand the bit where it mentions my town. Not the nation or the world.

BertrandRussell · 22/09/2015 14:53

"Jesus didn't proselytise. He spoke in parables. Half the time there are 15 different ways to understand what he was saying and then some. In fact I don't think he could have chosen a less dogmatic way of teaching! The result is a series of teachings that mean all sorts of things to all sorts of people, across the ages."

Really? I would have described Jesus' teachings as practically universally as clear as crystal. Tell me about some of the ambiguities.

buffyajp · 22/09/2015 14:53

Sister, those people that flew those planes into buildings did so with the aid of science. What do you think helped to build planes in the first place? By your strange logic I could turn the tables and say that science killed all those people on 9/11. What do you think is used to build bombs and weaponry? Yes that's right science, doesn't mean science is suddenly bad does it. People do bad things and as somebody else said war and murder is horrendous whether carried out in the name of religion, atheism or some other reason. There is no sliding scale decreeing one reason worse than the other. If my faith, which has helped me and my children through the loss of my son makes me mentally deluded in some people's eyes the so be it. I would rather be thought of as that than someone who is close minded and sneering. It would have to take someone seriously hard hearted to deny me and my children something that gives us comfort and support because they want to appear intellectually superior.

capsium · 22/09/2015 14:54

RiceBurner I hope I would not attempt to assume whole sectors of society are mentally deluded simply because I do not agree with their beliefs. As for where I draw the line, this is connected with dysfunctional behaviour (see my above post).

My comment on there being a lot of religious people was just made in terms of there being a lot of 'deluded' (from your perspective) people to look after / treat - I was interested in finding out how you think our 'delusion' should be treated...

BertrandRussell · 22/09/2015 14:55

"People do bad things and as somebody else said war and murder is horrendous whether carried out in the name of religion, atheism or some other reason."

Tell me about some wars and murders done in the name of atheism. Or in the name of science.