to have a problem with this teacher?

[Shirleycantbe]

My DD (10) came home from school of Friday upset because she’d been given what sounded like a very hard time by her piano teacher for not having done enough (any) practise. She has started Year 6 and is sitting exams for secondary school entrance in Jan, she’s getting at least 1.5 hours homework a night and is very anxious, stressed and tearful so I haven’t pressured her over piano on top of it all. She told me the teacher was pretty sarcastic and scathing when DD told her she hadn’t had time to practise, asking her what time she went to bed and did she find time to watch TV and when my DD started crying told her there was no need to “have hysterics”.

This isn’t the first time the teacher has been harsh and I’ve heard several complaints from other parents about her attitude towards the children.

I sent an annoyed email saying although I understood it must be frustrating when kids don’t bother practising I wasn’t prepared to have my DD reduced to tears over it at a time when she’s already under a lot of pressure.

The teacher replied with a very lengthy and accusatory email saying my DD’s account wasn’t accurate (amongst other things) and my DD had been surly (DD says she was just feeling really down and so didn’t smile much) and was “very aggressive” when told off about practise. DD totally denies this and it would be entirely out of character for her. She is a shy, polite, rule abiding child.

I’m really upset by this – obviously it’s just her word against my DD’s. I’m honestly not some precious parent who can’t take it if their child is criticised or told off and my DD has plenty of faults. But my DD is upset and asking if she has to carry on with piano and I’m inclined to tell her she doesn’t have to (although I’ve just paid for the whole terms lessons!)

Any advice on how I should handle this?

I work in a high achieving private school and instrumental teachers have been advised specifically to find out where the academic pressure points are and back off on telling kids off for not practicing so I think you should probably find a new teacher who is more understanding! I have various students across two schools and outside (wind, not piano). Some practice and a great many don't so I adapt to the circumstances and while I encourage them to do a few mins most days a week if they want to improve they don't all do it. Some progress with less effort in the early stages than others, we are all different. I think we are creating future audiences as well as performers and giving an appreciation and enjoyment of music is just as important as producing high achievers.

It is all about communication isn't it.The teacher probably thought she was doing right by you for bollocking your DD for not practising.you are paying for the lessons!!
The teacher can't be expected to know your DC is sitting 11+ or the ins and outs of her swimming timetable!
BTW your 11+ is very late in January? We have already done it here (or at least DD has!)

If you want your child to play the piano she has to practise; she won't learn without regular practice.
She is clearly not motivated so stop the lessons.

Piano teacher here.
I would let her have a break from it. Give notice to the teacher ( you probably won't get your money back for this term, depending on the terms and conditions). Then leave it alone for a while until the exam stress is over. Do not sell the piano/keyboard or give her books away. Tell her that if and when she wants to begin again, she can do so with a new teacher. In the meantime, you could buy some very easy piano books for beginners to grade 1 standard which she could tackle herself.
Let the impulse to begin again come from her - ie. do not push the issue. Gently remind her that she is welcome to try again any time she likes with a new teacher but that if she does not want to, she does not have to.
Then when you look for a new teacher, discuss what she hopes to get out of the lessons to see if her expectations and the teacher's match up. An exam-orientated teacher who expects a set amount of practice each day is not going to be a good fit.
Having said all of that, if she has no time to practice/play for enjoyment between the lessons it is an utter waste of time and money.
Some posters have asked why lessons always have to be about progress etc and said that people should just be allowed to play for "fun". Of course it should be fun, but unfortunately if you have no time to at least play through your pieces and experiment on the instrument, you will quickly become frustrated as the gap between what you would like to be able to do and what you can do widens.
In my experience, the students who come week after week without touching the instrument during the week have absolutely no interest in the instrument and give up after a while. There are plenty of others who are very busy but squeeze in a little bit of playing here and there - they make slow progress but continue to enjoy it. Then there are others who practise a lot and make faster
progress.

^Bulbasaur and SofiaAmes I feel bound to respond to defend my postion, particularly since you have both appeared to have missed my point...not to mention painted a draconian image of me as a instrument teacher.

Firstly, I did not suggest all instrumental students do two hours practise a day, I said that this would make a difference. Moreover, if I suggested your children watched television or went to the park for two hours you would not think that the child was being forced into it.

It is not about FORCING your children into doing the practice, it should not be treated as a chore - this is my point! It is about your child picking something up and playing it because they don't want to be doing anything else.^

Uhmm... I believe all I said was "Wow. I had 1 hour", and then mentioned that I did indeed get two hours a day after all, and more if I had to practice for a competition. If you read what I wrote, I made no reference one way or another about your teaching.

Who missed who's point?

If she is not practising then she is wasting the time, effort and energy of everyone concerned, as well as your money. The teacher is NBU to be annoyed with her.

The problem isn't the piano teacher , it's you . You are expecting far too much of your child and putting her under too much pressure. I agree with the poster who advised that you save your money for the therapy she will need later .

I have children of 9 and 11 and they do about 1.5 hours of homework a week . 6 hours is ridiculous . My children have time and space to do sports and hobbies that they enjoy and want to do - it's about fun. When it stops being fun, they can stop.

No, they are not competing with your child for a place at a top London private school. They don't need to , because they will just go to the local school and then on to university, exactly the same as your child. Except they will have had a childhood and your child won't.

I am completely bemused by this pushy London competitive parenting that I read about on Mumsnet . You must live in a little bubble, to think this is a normal childhood for most children in the UK. It's not . And I can't see how it benefits the child is any way , it seems all about the parents showing off to their friends .

There is no harm in stopping an instrument for a while. My daughter had music lessons as a primary school child which we stopped after a few years due to to lack of practice and no evidence of talent/interest.

She started playing again just before her 12th birthday and now plays three instruments. Her attitude is very different now.

I completely disagree with the people who say there's no point carrying on with music lessons if the child doesn't practice. My dd had periods where she either didn't want to or didn't have time to practice. Her teacher asked at the beginning of each lesson if she had practiced. If she hadn', they spent the time playing together, doing some improvisation or just going over some old pieces she had done before, it meant that she kept her hand in, enjoyed music, and is still playing both her instruments at 20.

OP- the swimming is the issue. I would put that on hold til after the exams. No wonder the poor child is stressed!

If your DD has a processing difficulty which is causing her to take so long over her homework - are these senior schools the best ones for her to be attempting? Have you discussed with school which schools would best match her ?
With her swimming - that is a lot of swimming. Is she really at the level/have the potential to make it worthwhile?

You are going to have to make some tough choices with your DD, which is most important: Swimming or Academics or her mental health.
You need to prioritise - and a lot of it has to come from her.

If she is really gifted at swimming and loves it - then you need to find a future school which will support that and make allowances.

Well I don't think I'd like to be in your DDs shores. No 10 year old should be so stressed by school work or other commitments that they are in tears.

My mum always insisted I practiced my instrument, but I only had to do 10 mins a day. I quite often did more, but at busy times it meant I kept up some progression and it was a good habit to get into. 10 mins is really nothing. I'd get a "15 mins to dinner" call and that was my cue to go and do my music practice.

I would just stop the piano lessons for the moment- it is an unnecessary stress. If she doesn't have time to practice there isn't much point. Then if she wants to go back to it choose another teacher.

Have you actually sat your DD down and asked her what she wants or discussed senior schools with her? Was the piano her idea or yours? It doesn't sound as if she is suited to all the stress she is under.

I agree with the comments about the stress that the whole secondary school application process puts on children in West London - it's awful. But this is where we live, it's just for a term, we aren't pushing her to do more than is being set by the school (which is one of the much less pushy schools in the area incidentally). We are guided by her current school as to where she is most likely to be happy - that is my main concern - not showing off or pushing her to get into a school where she will be stressed and not able to keep up.

And my awareness of the stress the whole thing causes is what drove my OP - I don't want her to be under extra pressure over something like piano practise. I haven't pushed her to learn piano - it was something she asked for - although I agree she clearly isn't into it enough to make it worthwhile currently.

The swimming is something she really enjoys and feels great after, I check with her whether she wants to do each session at the moment and if she says she feels too tired we don't go. They are understanding about the 11+ and flexible at the moment.

Thanks for the helpful input - especially from the piano teachers. I'm honestly not some tiger mother driving my child into the ground.

if you have no time to at least play through your pieces and experiment on the instrument, you will quickly become frustrated as the gap between what you would like to be able to do and what you can do widens.
That's just rubbish. You can stay at the level you are at without making huge improvements.
Play pieces that you are comfortable with and you get pleasure and relaxation from playing.
There is no need to practice every single day. Having a bit of time off because other things are taking priority will not matter. Most people don't take their instruments on holiday with them!

I agree Bertrand Not having practiced is not a reason to stop lessons. I'm glad your DD had a good teacher.
Radiodependent it's very reassuring to hear from a good quality teacher who hasn't forgotten what music is about. You are spot on, creating enjoyment of music is as important as producing high achievers.
Scobberlotcher that sounds brilliant. Your son would really have benefitted from that approach.

If you child is anxious, tearful and stressed ( as you said in your OP ) , she is obviously over committed . However much she wants to keep all these things on . You are her mother and you need to respond to her distress, not just say " oh she wants to do everything " or " All the other children in the class do as much " or " the teacher thinks this is the right school for her " .

I agree with the PP who say that she needs help and support to chose between some things.

Four nights swimming is far too much , on top of music and all that homework . One of my children does more sport than that BUT

• she competes at a national level
• she loves it and never has to be reminded to practice
• she has no other hobbies or activities
• she only does 1.5 hours homework per week
• she has support from the school ( for her sport )
• she has no exams or tests to prepare for
• she has no learning difficulties

I also agree with the PP who suggested that if she can't cope with the academic pressure now, she will struggle at 16 and you need to think hard about the best school for her .

I'm sorry if you think I'm giving you a hard time , I'm just concerned about you DD . No 10yo should be this unhappy and stressed trying to live up to other people's aspirations.

The other thing that my dd's music teacher's approach meant that when she did have the time and the inclination she shot ahead- then happily trod water again for a month or two while she focussed on something else. If you stop completely it's really hard to pick it up again, and you usually don't.

"That's just rubbish. You can stay at the level you are at without making huge improvements.
Play pieces that you are comfortable with and you get pleasure and relaxation from playing.
There is no need to practice every single day. Having a bit of time off because other things are taking priority will not matter. Most people don't take their instruments on holiday with them!"

How many students have you taught Oddlylogical?
Pre-teens and teenagers do have a lot of ideas about what they would like to play and especially on the piano because they see so many people on television and youtube playing. It really is a problem for many of them because they see others playing and it looks easy. They then come to piano lessons and have to start at the beginning. If there is no time to play during the week and no time to try things out they remain stuck at a beginner level for a long time. Many do become frustrated because they know what they want to play but can't and can't find the time to play through the pieces they learnt in the previous lesson. They then come to the lesson unable to play the pieces we learnt and we then need to look at them again or maybe try something new. And yes, I do make lessons fun for such students and have tried all sorts of things to motivate them in the hope that they will at least try something out during the week.

If a student has already reached a reasonable level before a time period hits when they are unable to play/practise a lot, then of course there is a lot of enjoyment to be gained by exploring lots of pieces at that level.

In my post I was not talking about practising every day or having time off for a holiday. I was talking about simply playing a little bit from time to time and trying things out. There are many students who don't even have time to do that once a week.

If they cannot find any time during the week to at least have a go at a couple of things then I would question whether they have any interest in the instrument at all.
For the record, I have several non-practisers and have never said anything to any of them which has ended up with them in tears like the OP's daughter. If there is a problem with them finding time to fit in a bit of playing, I try to help them with suggestions as to how they can build in 10 minutes here and there.
I stand by what I said that I think at the moment the OP's daughter is getting very little out of the lessons with this teacher and it would be better to take a break and let her continue playing a few of her pieces now and then if she wants to and let her decide if she would like lessons with a teacher at some point in the future.

It would be great if there were something out there she could just turn up to and do, then leave

May I suggest ukulele? DD did piano for 3 years but really wasn't committed enough to make the expense or logistics worthwhile.

A few weeks after she stopped her granddad bought her a cheap uke and taught her a few chords and she loves it. She is far more willing to pick it up for fun, teaches herself pop tunes using YouTube tutorials when the mood takes her and joins her granddad's group from time to time, playing for local charity fundraisers and at nursing homes.

All the fun of an instrument with absolutely none of the stress!

Sorry OP, bit of a derail there.

I agree with others who have suggested you give your DD a term off.

If she's adamant that she wants to continue, perhaps you could meet with her teacher and explain the issues at the moment and that you/she would like to keep her hand in for the time being but on a low key level and perhaps focus more on her Grade 1 after the 11+ is over.

Reading the posts about the school/pushy parents glad I live up north. my kids really enjoyed yr. 6 and now doing well at high school... and none of this pointless stress.

what happened to kids having a childhood and not just being pushed to breaking point at 10. hope you can afford the therapy.

Oh and they both are top set predicted a/a* for gcses, but if that doesn't happen so what, they can resit or go in a differnt direction.

Not everyone in London has pushy parents; I let my son give up guitar cuz he couldn't be arsed to practice, didn't pay for any private tutors to get him into a grammar or fee-paying school, and in primary I wasn't insistent on him doing his homework as he was knackered after being at school and after school club for so long. I also let him spend far too long on the PS4, but not on CoD or GDA. God I'm a shit mum.

OP, after not playing at home much and not doing her theory last week because she was feeling a bit off I went in to say hello to DD's teacher this week "don't worry, I take them as I find them", was her response when I said that not much had been done.

DD bounced out of there on the way home and played again as soon as we got in because she wanted to play part of a piece she couldn't do before her lesson to me.

I think that is more like it personally, DD had a good reason for not doing a lot and she bounced out of there, completely inspired.

I would consider a change of teacher or a break.