to have a problem with this teacher?

[Shirleycantbe]

My DD (10) came home from school of Friday upset because she’d been given what sounded like a very hard time by her piano teacher for not having done enough (any) practise. She has started Year 6 and is sitting exams for secondary school entrance in Jan, she’s getting at least 1.5 hours homework a night and is very anxious, stressed and tearful so I haven’t pressured her over piano on top of it all. She told me the teacher was pretty sarcastic and scathing when DD told her she hadn’t had time to practise, asking her what time she went to bed and did she find time to watch TV and when my DD started crying told her there was no need to “have hysterics”.

This isn’t the first time the teacher has been harsh and I’ve heard several complaints from other parents about her attitude towards the children.

I sent an annoyed email saying although I understood it must be frustrating when kids don’t bother practising I wasn’t prepared to have my DD reduced to tears over it at a time when she’s already under a lot of pressure.

The teacher replied with a very lengthy and accusatory email saying my DD’s account wasn’t accurate (amongst other things) and my DD had been surly (DD says she was just feeling really down and so didn’t smile much) and was “very aggressive” when told off about practise. DD totally denies this and it would be entirely out of character for her. She is a shy, polite, rule abiding child.

I’m really upset by this – obviously it’s just her word against my DD’s. I’m honestly not some precious parent who can’t take it if their child is criticised or told off and my DD has plenty of faults. But my DD is upset and asking if she has to carry on with piano and I’m inclined to tell her she doesn’t have to (although I’ve just paid for the whole terms lessons!)

Any advice on how I should handle this?

why are children not allowed to have piano lessons for the enjoyment of music?
I practised most days because i loved playing. My parents never once told me to practice.
If not practising means she isn't ready for a grade, so what? She can keep playing and having lessons until she is ready. Why pile more pressure on kids?

another one asking about 1.5 hours of homework - that sounds ridiculous. Assume you're cramming for a private school? I don't know any state that would be doing this in September.

If this is your priority, ditch the piano at the moment.

There's no point taking music lessons on any instrument if you don't practice. And for a professional teacher, to not practice at all, is probably the biggest insult ever. That and not turn up for a lesson.

Clearly the whole thing has got blown out of all proportion and your child's teacher has gone overboard.

Perhaps its time to change teachers anyway? I can't see it being a positive experience for your DD or the teacher, or indeed you after all the mud slinging back and forth.

10.5 hours of homework in year 6 and 6 hours of swimming? I'd save the money on piano lessons and put it towards the therapy she's going to need in later life.

I think she's doing too much! Serious exam cramming for common entrance/11+ etc PLUS a serious commitment PLUS music exams is a lot of pressure on a ten year old.

I would just quit the piano lessons for the time being. I used to find them like torture when I was a kid tbh, because I wasn't that into it and didn't bother to practise. My parents asked me if I wanted to give up, and for some reason, I always said no - guess that's what I thought they wanted to hear. In hindsight, I think it was a total waste of their money and my time!

DD expressed an interest in playing an instrument a while ago, but made it very clear that she didn't want to commit to the regular practice, so we agreed that it probably wasn't the right thing for her at present.

What is the point in her doing lessons if she has not got the time to practice. This is her piano homework unless you are happy to pay and she makes little or no progress

Best to get exams out of the way first

It sounds like there is far too much pressure on your daughter. Why not give her some time to sit and read a book in the evening, relax, knit, something she can just do for herself with no stress.

Does the child show any talent for the piano, and does (did) she enjoy it? If yes to either or both of those, ditch some other less interesting activity - did I see swimming mentioned? - and continue with the piano. It would be tragic for your daughter to abandon music at this early stage if she does have ability. YOu might want to change the teacher - but imo it is not a bad thing for a child to be slightly scared of displeasing its music teacher.

But if practice doesn't happen then yes, you are just throwing money down the drain.

An hour and a half of homework? Does she have a learning disorder that slows her down, or is she struggling in a subject? I'm not asking to put her down, I have a learning disorder and certain subjects took a couple hours each night with first doing it, and then correcting the mistakes my parents caught.

Do the teachers not give time during class to work on it a little before the bell?

I'd be asking the teachers why she's getting so much homework, to make sure she wasn't fooling around in class and saving all the work for when she gets home.

That said, it really is a waste of money to pay for lessons that you're not going to practice for. Why bother to send her if you aren't going to get anything out of it? I had a strict music teacher, and he expected religious practice. He could always tell when I practiced, tried my best and needed help and when I simply didn't practice at all. He was one of the best, and I did very well at competitions because of him. 20 minutes a day isn't hard to find, you waste more time per day scrolling facebook. I don't think it's the 20 minutes of piano practice that's causing her stress.

Also, at ten, she's going to be in the early stages of puberty. I wouldn't be too surprised at mood swings or her getting emotional, just as a general rule. She does have a busy schedule though. Does she at least have some time to herself? Combining school, homework, sports, and piano... That poor kid is "working" more hours and has less free time than most adults (including ones with kids).

My advice:

• Figure out why she has so much homework first. School is priority. If it's fixable by better time management at school, work on that. If she's struggling, work on that.

• Work everything else around that so she's not so stressed.

Is it homework from school or exam prep?

I have got to be honest I think you could have done more to head this off. Your child is 10/11. She is doing an extra 1.5hours studying a day plus swimming plus piano. I play piano, during exams etc my mum ways spoke to the teacher and gave them the heads up, I did the same for dd as she plays guitar. Music teachers are usually ok if they know what's going on.

Your dd is under a lot of pressure, too much imo. You could have headed this off by contacting the piano teacher and explaining and then decide what to do. If the teacher wasn't happy to continue lessons if she couldnt practice, dd could have had a break while you found someone new.

Your dd is under so much pressure I wouldn't be entirely sure she didn't act as the teacher said. I am miserable when under pressure.

But tbh, you will never know which way round it is. I would not be happy though if a child turned up for a lesson, having not practiced, with an attitude followed by an 'annoyed email' from the mother who hadn't even spoken by to me about what was going on and the fact that so much was happening or given me a heads up about the legitimate reasons there has been no practice. Especially if that email Is written assuming I am the big bad ogre and and the student is perfect and innocent.

It's really hard to decide fr what you have written tbh. But it does sound like your dd is under too much pressure and that you are being a bit pfb wrotinf your annoyed emails.

I think the point here is that she should WANT to practise, it shouldn't be something that you make her do. If she is not interested in learning the piano and all that it entails then simply turning up for a lesson will not cut it.

I also hate it when children tell me that they simply didn't have time to practise. Yes, they did, they just needed to prioritise it against something else, such as television. You are probably thinking that your daughter deserves some down-time, but here is the news-flash: playing piano IS downtime for most adults.

Also, the piano teacher's reputation is on the line, if she is preparing for some exam or other. FWIW, I refuse to teach children who don't practise (not piano), because it is not the 20 mins or so teaching time that makes the difference, it is the two hours of practice a day. I make this clear from the start and have no shortage of students so can afford to be this "rigorous" but I think that parents are wasting their money sending there child to learn an instrument who doesn't want to.

Practise should not be a chore, and you remark about making her do it, suggests that both she and you think it is.

Maursh Two hours.. Wow. I think my teacher only had 1 hour a day unless I was preparing for a competition. Then it was "get it right no matter how long it takes". But I also had band class for an hour, so I suppose that I still got two hours of playing time total each day.

I completely disagree with Maursh and others regarding practicing and its importance for all children. Not all piano students will be concert pianists. My dd is a talented and inspired singer and songwriter. She uses her piano and guitar skills to help her write and sing music. She is 12 and has been taking lessons mostly in guitar, but some piano and ukulele as well since she was 6 or 7. She begged me for lessons at that age and although it was clear to me that she would not be practicing as it was not her personality type, I found a teacher who would be able to work with her. She has had weekly lesson since then and has never regularly practiced, but has learned lots from her divine teacher who has recognized her need to learn music her way. She has learned what she needed to move forward in the areas that do inspire her (she does practice her singing regularly) and uses her guitar and piano skills to complement her singing and songwriting. And for what it's worth, she spends long hours doing all her homework and getting straight A's in all her academic subjects too and almost no time watching TV.

We don't have the rigid exam system for music in the USA that you have in the UK and I'm happy about that because my dd would never have had the musical education and inspiration that she's had here if we had remained in the UK and perhaps would have been turned off from music by teachers like the OP and Maursh the way the OP's child seems to have been.

Bulbasaur and SofiaAmes I feel bound to respond to defend my postion, particularly since you have both appeared to have missed my point...not to mention painted a draconian image of me as a instrument teacher.

Firstly, I did not suggest all instrumental students do two hours practise a day, I said that this would make a difference. Moreover, if I suggested your children watched television or went to the park for two hours you would not think that the child was being forced into it.

It is not about FORCING your children into doing the practice, it should not be treated as a chore - this is my point! It is about your child picking something up and playing it because they don't want to be doing anything else.

It is about teaching enthusiastic children and not children with enthusiastic parents (which are abundant!). I also made no reference to forcing children into taking music exams SofiaAmes which I also find, although useful, are for the benefit of parents.

No, I have never reduced a child to tears, but if a student is not putting in the hours required over a period of months, I speak to the parents.

The OP is classic case in point - does her daughter want to be learning piano or not? If yes, then she plays for fun as much as she can, otherwise what is the point?

I don't think the teacher was BU. They probably weren't being as sarcastic as your DD felt and wasn't expecting tears which certainly would seem hysterical if you hadn't done anything. I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing that out to a ten year old either.

It sounds to me as if your DD is approaching those difficult teen years and is dealing with hormones right now. "Surly" behaviour, feeling down, easily upset. She's becoming a teenager! I empathise with her massively. Those "I'm upset and angry but don't know why" emotions are hard to deal with!

I see little point in adding needless stress to your dd's life. I made a similar decision in relation to a music teacher who was sucking all the joy out of violin for my dd: it came to a head when she was really vile to dd about the fact that I hadn't bought the next size violin because my father was seriously ill. DD told her that, but she still said it was no excuse. I wrote to the music service who employed her cancelling further lessons and telling them exactly why.

But I would be concerned about the pressures on your daughter. I assume that in addition to all the homework and swimming she is having to spend time going to and from the pool? So that's around 4 hours a night committed - it's really too much at that age.

Sometimes it is hard to find time to play during the week though, if we have a busy week. Or like last week when I found my 9 year old asleep in her room at 5 o'clock in the evening, twice. She was just feeling off, fighting off a bug no doubt.

She will go to her music lesson today without having done her theory and with only two or three practise sessions in a week. Not normal, but I would hope that her teacher is understanding.

She can't do everything and the homework and swimming is more than enough at her age.

Sounds like something has to go and I've just been through the same with my DD. Having spoken to other parents it sounds like very few children practice very much, nevertheless some have made far more progress than my DD. However, at some point they all need to put some practice in to go to the next level.

I'm sad for DD as she is now not able to do music in any fun way, it would be great if there were something out there she could just turn up to and do, then leave. I used to go to a bell ringing group which was like that.

In the 30 odd years since I was at school not much has changed...children still don't want to practice their instruments, do their homework or wear the correct uniform, no one has come up with a solution have they?

Old Joseph!

Oh and DD was doing her practice and not making the progress of her friends.

lavendar that's where the parent can step in.

Dd had her kick boxing grading a few weeks ago. I told her guitar teacher that, that would be her priority for the next week. He understood and at her next lesson took tahthat into account.

The OP could have approached the piano teacher before pointing out that her dd has 4 sessions of swimming a week, 1.5 hours of homework a night and (possibly) exam prep and that piano wouldn't be the priority at the moment. If the teacher said its not acceptable, the OP would have been right to with draw her from lessons and find someone else to teach her when there is less pressure.

I had a fantastic music teacher when I was a teenager. If I had periods when I was unable to do much or any practice because of exams and/or when I had a prolonged period of ill health, we just worked on sight reading practice in lessons. Yes, I may not have made as much progress as if I had been able to practice for hours each week, but the lessons were still very much worth while.

And more importantly, I continued to enjoy the lessons. They were a little oasis of peace and enjoyment once a week that allowed me to escape from the other stresses in my life. As a result I looked forward to them and continued to enjoy my music. I was lucky enough to have a brilliant teacher who recognised this and instilled a life long love of music in me.

Your DD's music teacher sounds very narrow minded, and not very good at introducing children to a love of music. I would try to find another one.

I agree with Thistledew
I find it tragic the attitude that so many people have on this thread - particularly the music teachers! It's not about the teacher.

There's no point taking music lessons on any instrument if you don't practice. And for a professional teacher, to not practice at all, is probably the biggest insult ever.
I'd find a decent teacher if that was the attitude I had to deal with.
What has gone wrong that playing an instrument has to be all about taking grades and making continuous progress? Why can't she learn at her own pace? A pace that might slow from time to time when other things have to take priority. Music can be such a great pleasure and stress reliever to sit alongside exam and other pressures. It's not supposed to add to the pressure.

If a music teacher can only be happy with a student who gets good grades and has no interest in the ones who play purely for pleasure, then they have lost focus on what actually matters.
A student who learns to love playing, will play regularly because of the pleasure it brings and will improve at their own pace.

I still play now - I don't practice.

Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback.

The homework is set by school as part of the preparation for the 11+ (for private schools in London) - all the kids are doing it and the piano teacher will be aware of this having taught at the school for several years. My DD has some processing issues which means she is slower than most to complete homework - I doubt it is taking all her classmates quite as long.

She isn't particularly talented at the piano and is only working towards Grade 1. I've several times told her that I am perfectly fine if she wants to give up, it's not something that I feel she ought to do if she isn't interested but she has said, up until now, that she wants to continue.

I am painfully aware of the amount of pressure that she is under - I agree, far too much for a 10 year old. And it seems like stopping piano would at least remove one element of it. Fortunately the intensity of the school work will only last until that exams are done in January.