To ask if you have tried 5HTP / St John's Wort for depression?

[DownAndConfused]

I have a duplicate thread in Mental Health but no traffic so sorry if this feels in the wrong place. I just wanted to know if anyone has found either of these useful for depression? I tried an AD (escitalopram) but it made me really anxious and upset my stomach. I'm having counselling and on a waiting list for CBT, I am hoping to have another baby but my doctor said that you can't be on antidepressants and get pregnant as it causes heart problems for the baby?

So I saw online that 5HTP and St John's Wort can be good and maybe someone could tell me if they are good? I could stop before having a baby but maybe they would help first.

Actually it really really isn't a much or OTT. Herbal medicines aren't what I'm talking about they are regulated and what they say they are.

There is a mass of documented evidence that supplements, even some from very reputable GMP companies are adulterated, aren't the concentration they are supposed to be and haven't be made to a high standard. Which is why many of the Herbal Medicine manufactures want regulators to push the fact to the public that supplements could be great and well made or the equivalent of back alley knock ups. They also are pushing for regulation of it.

People make something as a supplement purely to get around the regulation that would be needed for a medicine.

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/460319

edzardernst.com/2013/01/contamination-and-adulteration-of-herbal-remedies/

www.usp.org/meetings-courses/workshops/adulteration-and-fraud-food-ingredients-and-dietary-supplements

Sorry OP, this is starting to derail so I'm going to back out now and just leave the links and google to anyone who does want to research more into the difference with supplements and medicines and potential problems.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I hope it helps you feel better.

I wouldn't say herbal is more safer!
They have side effects too.
I looked up those 5htp for example, and they're not safe with some painkillers either, heart problems, shivering etc.
Some people don't get on with some ad, doesnt mean it's the same for everyone!
I personally was fine on prozac.

5htp is an amino acid,

Angus Cactus is a herb but then so are basil, oregano, mint etc etc - all have medicinal & therapeutic properties. Medicines generally start out as herbals - herbals often contain the antidote to the side effects of the main drug. Pharma companies tend to take that out in favour of a purer drug, one that they can licence & therefore own the rights of.

My daughter is currently going through nasty withdrawal symptoms from a drug given by her doctor - she said she would rather face the withdrawals cold turkey, than wean it down gradually as advised, as the side effects she was having were so very bad. Most of those side effects weren't listed on the pack, but we're known by her doctor & can be found on the Internet. This is the third drug she has reacted really badly to in the last few months & had the rarer side effects not listed on the pack. She's still having occasional bouts of violent hiccups 3 months after stopping one of them - yet she only took 2 pills.

I don't disagree that supplements & herbals aren't always as good as they should be, but neither are medicines. In my experience side effects of herbals & supplements tend to be far less severe.

Though personally I'm in favour of getting it as naturally as you can, that way you know what you are getting.

& I apologise too, I was sharp in my post above. Unfortunately I've seen too many of these types of threads be derailed by attacks on anything perceived as "woo" - I apologise for thinking that's were you were going with your replies creme

I will go back to stirring my cauldron with the rest of the hags

DownAndConfused Your GP is simply wrong in saying that antidepressants are all dangerous in pregnancy. Yes some are know to cause defects but there are plenty that are not associated with any increased risk. Anxiety and depression during pregnancy are themselves are a known risk to mother and baby during pregnancy so it is entirely up to you if you decide to medicate or not.

I chose to take medication, I am a scientist and made sure to research the risks myself. I am 23 weeks pregnant, I take amitriptyline and everything in my pregnancy has been fine - I feel better than I have in years (after over a decade of taking over a dozen AD with varying effects). Sorry that you had a bed reaction to escitalopram (I did too when I tried it) but there are many, many other ADs that you could try- that one didn't work, the next one might be perfect for you.

Ask for a referral to a specialist Psychiatric consultant; GPs are not specialists and will often err on the side of caution or simply not be well informed enough to help you. I saw a number of psychiatric consultants prior to TTC and all were happy to prescribe a wide range of ADs that were compatible with pregnancy/conception. All the risks were outlined and the key points they kept making was that it is better for an expectant mother to be well, and that they would never consider prescribing anything that might be a risk to pregnancy.

If you are under the care of mental health professionals during pregnancy they will look after you, it will be in your notes and will likely be discuss regularly with Drs and midwives. If you decide to self medicate and take something "natural" there will not be any backup if you need it, no one monitoring you and no medical knowledge in the event of an emergency; there is also just as much chance that you will experience unpleasant side effects from these remedies too. There will be far greater knowledge in the medical community about the effects of a prescribed drug than one you have bought over the internet, or from Holland and Barrett for example. The same goes for the effects of any drug with respect to the post-partum phase (breastfeeding or withdrawal etc.)

Pregnancy is a difficult time (before, during and after), and with mental health worries even more so. Don't do it on your own, get some from someone specialised in that area who will give you educated advice and support.

Good luck

I bought some 5HTP today but I am really exhausted. I haven't taken any of it yet which is lucky or I would be blaming the tablet for me feeling like this. I can hardly keep my eyes open so will take a vitamin tonight, have a good sleep and hopefully feel better and able to try a 5HTP tablet tomorrow.

If you do want to Check out contraindications & side effects OP

drugs.com is a good site to use

RockinHippy You are correct in saying that many medicines originate from herbs and other natural sources (for example aspirin, from willow). However it is incredibly expensive for sufficient amounts of the active pharmaceutical ingredient to be taken out and made into a consumable drug. What actually happens is that the exact same molecule will be made synthetically, the result of which is that the product is actually purer than if you got it from a "natural" source.

Do you drink alcohol at all? 5htp can cause horrific panic attacks and seizures if you drink even very low doses of alcohol whilst taking them. I would research thoroughly before taking them. Just because they can be bought over the counter doesnt mean they are without side effects

I drank while taking 5htp and had no side effects.

Definitely do your own research OP but really XiCi, scaremongering much

XiCi I didn't see that anywhere about alcohol and 5HTP not mixing. I don't think it was on Web MD. I don't drink often but I like a few drinks on a night out so I would have to not take a tablet that day maybe.

That's good Ayers! I really only drink about one night a month so it wouldn't be a big problem.

I drank on it too & no ill effects at all

DD doesn't drink

Down seeing your comments about being so exhausted, please do look into & get yourself tested for deficiencies such as B12/pernicious anaemia, this can cause MH problems such as depression & more, along side exhaustion. VitD should also be checked & probably iron & folate too

There may well be a physical, fixable reason why you are suffering as much as you are with depression, it will help with TTC too

I'm not scaremongering. I think it's important to be informed of risks. Just because 1 person didn't have side effects doesn't mean someone else won't. I actually binned the tablets I'd bought after doing some research. I didn't think it was worth the risk.

Where did you research XiCi? I have been reading a lot of stuff but haven't seen anything that mentions alcohol yet.

you could have worded it a little less like, oh l don't know, scaremongering.

Give the OP the link where you read about the alcohol thing and she can read up.

I looked at the side effects and decided for me they were worth it and they did what they were supposed to do.

Good luck OP, it isn't easy but l hope you do find something you're happy with and works.

I'm curious to see this info link too as I've never heard of this before or anything even remotely similar & have read a LOT on this subject over the years

Though I've got to say I'm bemused to read someone throwing away a new unused jar of 5HTP in favour of drinking alcohol - because of "the risk"

Has me wondering if you would do the same with antibiotics

OffMyAyersRocker isn't scaremongering, simply warning.
What effects one person may not effect another.

I was told by my specialist it was safe to drink on one of my drugs and i'd be fine.
I threw up, was confused and smashed my face open.
This was only after a few drinks in 4-5 hours.
Turns out some people do have extreme reactions. I was very lucky with mine!

I read some pages about 5hcp but some sites never listed the contra indication with tramadol.
I find the risk of seizures quite scary!

I found the post about prozac and people being sucidal scaremongering
some People didn't get on with prozac, just like any other medication.
When you first take ad it actually says that you may feel worse, before you feel better.
Prozac worked fine for me when i was prescribed it.

I found the post about prozac and people being suicidal scaremongering

Plenty more about online if you care to google

& I was speaking from personal experience - 2 male friends didn't report it as they were worried they wouldn't get to see their kids - one I realised he was at risk after an odd call & we rushed round there & stopped him taking the rest of a bottle of pills - the other was myself

Still scare mongering

Just because there has been an observed increase in suicide (and other behaviours such as self harm) associated with taking drugs such as prozac it is not as simple as attributing this behaviour simply as a side effect of the meds. There is a very big difference between correlation and causality.

People who are severely depressed are at risk from suicide but may be too ill to carry out their wishes. It is believed by many that the increase risk after starting on any AD is due to them actually beginning to work - people have improved motivation (without yet having an improved mood to go with it). Sometimes people suffer from an anticlimax, the early days of a new AD often come with side effects which may temporarily make the patient feel even worse; some people also are desperately hoping to feel better an underestimate how long it is going to take, as a result in the early days they feel like nothing is ever going to get better and they are a lost cause.

This is why it is so important to be monitor and supervised by someone who is looking out for these things (and why self medication for depression etc is so dangerous). It is also not recommended to believe everything that is reported in the media, so often are scientific stories misinterpreted by journalists who simply do not understand what they are writing about.

did you actually read my post

& 10/15 years ago, Prozac wasn't always prescribed as an antiD either

I'm not against medication, they all have their place, much the same as supplements & herbals do & they all need treating with a degree of respect. Some far more so than others, that's all, I wasn't slating AntiDs, just offering a counter argument to those slating herbals & supplements

Rockin I have read all the posts on this thread, and have reread yours just now. You are simply stating your believes and experiences, I have done the same. I am quite interested in where you get your information from and how well you understand what you are talking about but if I have missed the point wildly about what you have written please do reiterate it.

My aim is not to disagree with you just for fun, I am trying to offer a counter view to your argument so that anyone else who may read this thread now, or in the future.

I have personal experience with ADs, mental health issues, pregnancy worries (as per the OP). I also have knowledge of chemistry, pharmaceuticals and biological activities of drugs, I felt that some of the comments on this thread were coming maybe from a less informed position. Saying that, I would like to know what else prozac has been used for, I have not heard of that before (only ever for mood disorders) and am interested in learning about something I didnt know before.

*My aim is not to disagree with you just for fun, I am trying to offer a counter view to your argument so that anyone else who may read this thread now, or in the future has a better balance of information from which they can form their own opinions...

Your GP isn't very up-to-date. There was some scaremongering a while back about the cardiac problems in babies but there was a large study released this year that says there is no increase in risk. All anecdotal, but I have seen tons of women take ADs in pregnancy and none of their babies have had any problems, and certainly no cardiac ones. They are monitored for a little while after birth - nothing scary, just heart beat, resp rate and temperature every few hours to check for withdrawal symptoms but I haven't come across it yet.

The most common ADs taken in pregnancy are citalopram, fluoxetine (prozac) and sertraline. SSRIs seem to be the main ones used and they're generally the first ones GPs will try anyway.

RockinHippy

she said she would rather face the withdrawals cold turkey, than wean it down gradually as advised,

That is just straight up dangerous.

She's still having occasional bouts of violent hiccups 3 months after stopping one of them - yet she only took 2 pills.

Those two things are most likely unrelated. If she has anxiety, it could well be the anxiety causing the hiccups, I had terrible breath control when I was ill and horrible reflux and hiccups as a result.

I have to agree with Butterchunks, you're scaremongering and don't sound like you are coming from the most informed place.