To ask if you have tried 5HTP / St John's Wort for depression?

[DownAndConfused]

I have a duplicate thread in Mental Health but no traffic so sorry if this feels in the wrong place. I just wanted to know if anyone has found either of these useful for depression? I tried an AD (escitalopram) but it made me really anxious and upset my stomach. I'm having counselling and on a waiting list for CBT, I am hoping to have another baby but my doctor said that you can't be on antidepressants and get pregnant as it causes heart problems for the baby?

So I saw online that 5HTP and St John's Wort can be good and maybe someone could tell me if they are good? I could stop before having a baby but maybe they would help first.

"The rest flushes away" - Damn you autocorrect !

MACA INFO & LINKS IN HERE

Thank you so much Rockin. How much 5HTP does your DD take? I hope things get better for her

I do think hormones are part of this as my PMT has been much worse over the last while and when I said to the counsellor she told me take evening primrose oil. It's just that usually the PMT lifts as soon as my period has arrived and this month it hasn't gone away and my period is over and I'm still crying every day I get so angry at myself when I can never seem to do the things I need to do just easy stuff for work or tidying up.

Branleuse thank you sorry I thought I had already asked about the agnus castor. Would it change my periods do you think? Or would the maca Rockin? My periods are very regular so I don't want to mess my cycle up.

I give her 1x500mg capsule a day - I give it to her in the evening about an hour or so before bed as it helps her relax & sleep.

I don't know how old you are, but is there any chance it could be peri menopause ?? That can go on for a decade or more for some women - if so, I would definitely go for taking Maca too - you can get bags of powder quite cheaply in most good health food shops or herbalists. Just mix it into smoothies, or even mix with honey or maple syrup & take on a spoon. Start with 1/4 of a teaspoon & work your way up to 1 tsp

I would also recommend taking a magnesium supplement or using Epsom salts in your bath to get magnesium into you that way - it's a very important mineral for helping the body deal with stress, pain, sleep etc & modern diets & soil quality mean people are often deficient

Turmeric is another good thing for you too look into - no contraindications at all & can be subbed for or supplement some pain killers or antiDs

OP, If you have problem periods, it may well help regulate them (agnus castus)

I started taking 5htp when dd was about 7 months old. It was literally a life saver for me. Took it for 9 months and haven't needed it since (3.5 years on).

I didn't have anxiety but l could feel it give me a sense of calmness anyway. It helped with my sleep which was fantastic.

Start low and increase dose as it can make you feel a bit woozy if you're not careful. I took one tab in the morning and 2 at night.

I would be wary of any hormone regulating supps if you are ttc soon. I would also talk to another GP as it is complete tosh to say the risks are so large that no woman should take anti-d's when they're pregnant.

If you find you are pg whilst taking anti-d's, some GPs may suggest you try and wean yourself off very slowly. The main issue is actually that if you are taking a high dose in the last few days then your child may experience withdrawal symptoms once you've given birth. Not nice. BUT, there are many women who have successfully done this.

I need to back this up by saying I am someone who has actually taken anti-d's through two pregnancies, weaning off very slowly, and started taking them again within 6 weeks when pnd hit me like a truck and left me suicidal .

Each child was born in a different country and with different GPs and obstetricians involved and the level of up-to-date knowledge varied wildly.

Do not take SJW or 5HTP when TTC, but know that 5HTP is just a precursor to seratonin and that doesn't mean it's harmless, but doesn't mean it's ju-ju either.

The fact that it seems to be potentially hormone related means there are tons of things you can do with diet and vitamins, like the Mg mentioned by PP. Try Marilyn Glenville for example - you don't need to take the supps she sells, but there's loads of info that might be useful. I find Mg, plenty of iron, Omega 3 etc has made a huge difference. www.marilynglenville.com/

Good luck, LB

it would be better to take agnus castus or any of these supplements before TTC, than to continue with unregulated depression and a pregnancy and a new baby

agnus castus I can recommend, it's good for balancing but don't take any supplements (except folic acid/preconception ones) when ttc/becoming pregnant- herbal or otherwise. You have no guarantee they are safe or what they say they are, concentration and containing wise. You are better off taking a medicine like a/d then an unknown.

Raspberry red leaf tea helped me at one point, but again, not when pregnant.

I thought some ad were safe to
Take during pregnancy?
Think you have to weigh up what the risks are.
Due to the medication i have to take i won't be able to have a baby naturally but i have to think what's more risky.
I don't want my mental health ( don't think my ad can be taken during pregnancy) to get bad again nor my pain.

Ayers thank you what dose did you take of 5HTP? I think I'm going to try it first.

No I don't have problem periods as such, they are very regular and quite light so I don't want to change them. We got pregnant very easily last time so I don't want to change that.

I would go natural over ADs any day, even if safe in pregnancy, they come with all sorts of side effects & IMHO/E unless you really have no choice & nothing else works, it's just not worth it.

Plus some hormone regulators such as Maca, are actually beneficial when TTC

I took these 5htp in the gel tablets. The vegan ones were different and didn't work for me.

Thinking on this a bit more...

You might want to ask your GP to check your Vit D levels & also check for B12 deficiency/pernicious Anaemia - both can cause depression & are easily fixed

RockinHippy So do some herbal products come with side effects (depending on the person) and herbal supplements may not be what they say they are, so aren't all that natural. You could be chugging down sugar pills or chugging down some other possibly toxic botanical.

Belladonna is natural, but who'd want to be consuming that?

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=adulteration+of+dietary+supplements&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0CB4QgQMwAGoVChMIr77I2oSDyAIViRbbCh20Ag06

There is some evidence St. John's wort is helpful in depression.

But (and it's a big but) please do not fall into the natural = healthy and harmless trap! Cyanide is natural, so is arsenic ;)

Herbal preparations can interact with other medications you take, for example, SJW is notorious for reducing the effectiveness of the pill. I would not take any herbal preparations while ttc or pregnant. They are not manufactured to the same GMP guidelines as, say, drugs or vitamins and every year we hear of preparations contaminated with other ingredients.

Your doctor is wrong when he says (if he said) that all ADs are counterindicated in pregnancy. Prozac, for example, has a pretty good safety profile. Some ADs are considered safe, some arent.

See another GP - it is very important to get anxiety and mental health issues under control before pregnancy/during pregnancy. Typically this could be with a combination of low dose ads and cbt or something like that. Ask your doc if you can try a safer ad like Prozac. If he refuses, ask why, because it IS safe. If he still refuses, you need to politely find yourself another GP.

creme I didn't say natural = no side effects

Just that I personally would choose natural over AntiDs any day - you only have to look at the pack to see the side effects & much more online.

Using belladonna as an example is deliberately obtuse & ICBA to get into a debate with anyone stopping to such silly tactics, it's pretty clear from that remark, that it's very you are only interesting in derailing, no doubt shouting science as your God - no thanks, not interested

I'm not up for debating at all, just offering the OP the advice she asked for & something perhaps a bit safer given the TTC

Good luck OP

I personally really wouldn't recommend Prozac at all

There is a known side effect of "attempted suicide around the 10 Day Mark"

I know 5 people who took Prozac, all 5 were suicidal on days 9&10 - none were suicidal before that. Only 2 of them "may" have been reported medically as one died & the other ended up as an in patient none of them knew this was a side effect.

The other 3 didn't report this as they didn't want to be on antiDs, but felt they had no choice as their GPs weren't listening to real medical concerns & labelling them as depressive instead, owning up to a suicide attempt would convince a GP they had been correct. All turned out to have other medical conditions

Actually Belladonna is an adulterant of some herbals, so it's an example of adulation which happens with a lot of the different supplements. But feel free to believe that it's derailing to suggest to the OP that supplements are a) not regulated b) not necessarily safe and 3) certainly not safe for ttc and no safer for ttc when they could be pretty much anything due to their unregulated and untested status.

I apologise if I missed it being just your opinion that herbals are better for yourself, it read to me that you were stating natural was better and since Skipton has also added after myself that herbals can interact, have effects are are not necessarily better, it looks like I'm not the only one that believed that. But feel free not to debate with me, I have no intention of derailing the OPs thread with anything just to encourage her to speak to her GP and not to take anything while ttc without talking to them first and not to fall into the trap of thinking natural=safe and no/less side effects.

Oh and Science isn't my God though it is a flirtation. I actually like and use various herbal medicines over pharma drugs and have recommended them to the OP. But medicines, not the potentially adulterated god-knows what supplements. And with the medicines I have researched carefully into them especially as I'm ttc myself and so can't take the majority of my normals. Having had a miscarriage, I personally wouldn't take or recommend anyone taking the chance while ttc.

Maca is a foodstuff creme & turmeric is a spice - neither are herbals

Sorry RockinHippy I was confused by your posts and the previous ones which were talking about SJW, Angus Castus and 5HTP which are herbals and supplements. I thought you were referring to them.

With respect, herbal supplements on sale through major retailers are usually made by reputable companies with well established reputations, and list ingredients.

Most people aren't buying them from a market stall and they're not made by old hags grinding a way with a pestle and mortar and chucking any old shit in to the mix.

Honestly - I appreciate that herbal medicines can be powerful, can interact with other medications, and there can be issues over dosage, but to suggest they're unsafe because there is a high risk of contamination... Bit over the top.

Personally I'm astonished how the many and deeply unpleasant side effects of a whole range of prescribed medications are overlooked. If the entire contents of Holland and Barrett resulted in even half the hideous side effects caused by some of the few medications my elderly relatives take we'd be screaming for them to be banned.