to think religious discrimination/name calling is every bit as bad as racism or homophobia?

[IceBeing]

I hadn't realised how far the understanding of the genetic component of spirituality had gotten. It seems that (as with everything) whether or not you believe in god or are spiritually inclined is a mixture of nature and nurture but predominantly nature.

So if being either religious/spiritualist or atheist is predominantly not a matter of choice but one of genetics then that makes religious discrimination look pretty similar to any other discrimination based on genetic factors like disability, homosexuality, race etc.

This cuts both ways...there is rather more talk of people who believe in god as stupid and just need to get over it on MN than there is talk of people who are gay as being stupid and just needing to get over it.

But then there is also rather more discrimination against children of atheists in the state funded education sector than there is against children of homosexual couples...

Does it change anyone else's view of religious discrimination to know that the level of spirituality it is a predominantly genetically determined factor?

sir very possibly...I spent 18 years going to church 3 times a week and it has done nothing for or to me...I came out a staunch atheist.

You can lead a horse to water....

similarly I can bring up my DD in an atheist household where we like to question EVERY assumption diligently...but she may be genetically susceptible to belief in a force greater than herself...in which case she will go find a religion that suits.

(sir that wasn't supposed to be an actual paper - it was hopefully going to contain links to some....)

ego I don't know...I don't think I ever believed in things like Santa or the toothfairy and I don't think I ever believed in god. IT was just an oft repeated story to me...I could recite it but it didn't really occur to me that other people actually believed it was all true for some time.

I couldn't see them - there was a sponsored content block over them. I'd love to see the evidence that such a paper cited though

Maybe my DD will be different though...she briefly believed (but perhaps more hoped) that the numberjacks were real.

yes that was my problem...sponsored content...never a good sign. I definitely think the assigning of a specific gene to belief in god was premature to the point of stupidity but I find the twin studies compelling of at least smoke if not fire.

The existence of 'soul' is not something I believe in at all....

Not giving someone a job/school place/arrest some because of their race; wrong.

Not giving someone a job/school place/arrest some because of their religion/atheism; wrong.

Not giving someone a job/school place/arrest some because of the behaviours related to their religion/atheism that directly affect it; fine.

No one should refuse a doctor a job because of their Catholicism, but if they refuse contraception/referral to abortion because of their beliefs, they shouldn't work as a doctor. Kim Whatserface shouldn't be able to have her job if she won't do her job. Atheist me can't be Archbishop of Canterbury.

I'm interested that so many people feel that religion is a "choice" - I don't think it has been in my experience.

I went through a phase when I was younger of attending church and going through all the motions of being religious, primarily because I really wanted to be part of that community. In the end, though, I had to square up to the fact that I couldn't make myself actually believe in it. Had it been a choice, I'd have chosen it, but it didn't work out that way.

Not sure if it was down to nature, nurture or a combination of the two, but I do know that you cannot just choose to believe something if it doesn't make sense to you.

Kampeki - perhaps 'enforced choice' might be a better way of describing it?

ego as I said from the start who you are is a mixture of nature and nurture and mostly peer pressure tbh..

but we are just meat machines...we operate code...but the influences on what that code says and how it makes us respond are so complex as to give the appearance of self-determination...

Possibly sir, but I don't really understand what that means. If it is enforced, how is it a choice?

I find it odd that atheists (like myself) know that the choice to believe isn't really available if you don't. Sure you can go through the motions but you can't make yourself believe.

But we are then really poor at extrapolating to think that those who do believe do some how have the choice not to.

It is an odd asymmetry and one I have been guilty of up until now.

I was being facetious . I suppose what I meant was that it's presented as a choice, but the reality is far from that.

ego I haven't...maybe I should...

I did Philosophy of Religion at college and my Prof used to liken arguing about religion to arguing about ice cream flavours. I LIKE CHOCOLATE. I LIKE VANILLA. It's meaningless. And not something you can really debate.

However, when you try to force me to eat chocolate because you think chocolate is the only flavour that is good, then we have something we can argue about.

The difference in thinking about religion and homosexuality is societal I think.

According to wikipedia only 52% of identical twin boys had the same sexuality.

So there is certainly more than genetics to the homosexuality story too.

We have as a society decided that we will not consider sexuality to be a choice while we continue to decide that belief in god is a choice....

I don't know if there is any evidence for transexuality at all from a genetic perspective...we view it as not a choice mostly, I would imagine, because it brings such difficulties to the person concerned that surely noone would choose that.

violence is another one that is probably a whole lot less to do with choice than environment....hence the way crime rates always drop about 20 years after you stop using leaded petrol....

but our society paints violence as a choice unilaterally.