to think religious discrimination/name calling is every bit as bad as racism or homophobia?

[IceBeing]

I hadn't realised how far the understanding of the genetic component of spirituality had gotten. It seems that (as with everything) whether or not you believe in god or are spiritually inclined is a mixture of nature and nurture but predominantly nature.

So if being either religious/spiritualist or atheist is predominantly not a matter of choice but one of genetics then that makes religious discrimination look pretty similar to any other discrimination based on genetic factors like disability, homosexuality, race etc.

This cuts both ways...there is rather more talk of people who believe in god as stupid and just need to get over it on MN than there is talk of people who are gay as being stupid and just needing to get over it.

But then there is also rather more discrimination against children of atheists in the state funded education sector than there is against children of homosexual couples...

Does it change anyone else's view of religious discrimination to know that the level of spirituality it is a predominantly genetically determined factor?

I think the final sentence of the blog OP has linked to tells us everything we need to know about the writer's bias here! Definitely a load of cobblers, sorry.

sir thanks - but why don't you buy twin studies?

As I said - the one you linked to doesn't count as evidence. Have you anything more to offer to back up your claim?

What that I am a staunch atheist?

Mostly I am posting because I suddenly became uncomfortable with how I think of people who do have spiritual beliefs...because I would never think that sort of thing on the basis of any other genetic characteristic.

I said I couldn't get the actual research papers at home...but if you can hang on till I am back at work.....

Which suggests that you believe religion to be a genetic characteristic?

We can agree that religious discrimination is wrong without the need to accept that religion is in any way genetic. (Telling people their religion is silly is not discrimination.)

You should not be persecuted or imprisoned for religious beliefs - or lack of them - any more than you should be persecuted or imprisoned for being a Star Trek fan, a Manchester United supporter or a lover of the music of Westlife. Other people may disagree with you about these things - vociferously - but that isn't persecution.

This all reminds me of the over-use of that wonderful expression, "free speech". People don't always appreciate what that is. It means the government can't imprison people for their beliefs - it doesn't mean that people can say whatever they like without being challenged.

I can get hold of many research papers - what's the name of them and I'll login and try and find them

dad I think some of the phrasology used on MN regarding woo etc. would border on hate speech if directed on the basis of race or sexuality.

Certainly MN would delete it if it wasn't about religion.

Also my DD would be refused a place at the school a stones throw from us because of our atheism....so it seems to me that religious discrimination is alive and well and state sponsored.

Actually many people do change their sexuality.
With religion, people should be able to believe what they like. But that is not the same as saying that people have to respect your beliefs. No one has to respect anyone else's beliefs.

ego do you think the % of the world population with white skin has stayed constant? Or for that matter the % of homosexuals?

colley but I can't believe what I like! I can't believe at all....

What about believing in other superstitions and supernatural things? Like ley lines, witches, ghouls, leprechauns and fairies? Is that supposedly a genetic predisposition too, or is it just about gods?

Surely, as others have said, there is an overwhelming cultural influence to take into account. If you were born in 10th-century Denmark you'd probably believe in Odin. If you were born in India today, you'll probably be a Hindu. If you live in the US Bible Belt, you declare yourself to be a Christian and you go to church without even thinking about it, because not to do so is social death and would result in quite serious personal and professional disadvantages. You'll have a church without thinking about it, because it's just assumed that everyone does - the same way everyone sends their children to school.

sir www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-08/what-twins-reveal-about-god-gene

This may contain some links...I can't load the bloody page properly...

dad that is what I have been trying to say - this about the capacity for faith not about the specific religion/spiritualism

Not really evidence, is it

The point I was making is that may be because the people who migrated were the ones who were essentially being persecuted in the UK for being too religious at the time.

Most immigration to the US was economically motivated. It certainly was for my 5-times Presbyterian great-grandfather who left the most Presbyterian part of Scotland to go to North Carolina. He had no problem exercising his religion in Scotland. Feeding his family was his challenge.

IceBeing - I remember many similar conversations on here in the discussions following Richard Dawkins's "The God Delusion", with people claiming he was being disparaging towards religion, etc., and that calling it "woo", etc., is disrespectful.

But you have to draw the line somewhere. If I claimed I could lift my computer off the desk with the power of my mind (but chose not to), people might start out by being mildly sceptical. If I continued to assert this with no supporting evidence, it's probable that people would become more irate, or assume I was taking the piss. Some people would probably start to use terms like "nonsense" or "mumbo-jumbo". They wouldn't be discriminating against me or persecuting me - they'd just be making a perfectly reasonable request for some evidence.

There's a reason James Randi's $1million hasn't been won yet...

So hang on - what you're saying is that, in order to believe in whatever god it is you've been raised to believe in, or have turned to, you need to have be predisposed to believing the unbelievable, accepting of intolerant views and open to accepting the words of a story book written centuries ago?

Religion has a massive influence and power on all of our lives. All atheists like myself have on our side is mockery.