To have never really understood why WW1 started?

[Blackcloudsbrightsky]

My son asked me tonight and I could only vaguely talk about an assassination. I went on google and am none the wiser. Have A level History at grade B as well so I can't be that stupid well maybe

Is there anything you Just Don't Get? And AIBU to think this WW1 business is confusing?

Assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Can't remember where or why!!

There was a program on a while back about the world wars on history I think. It was good (although I obviously didn't retain much information!

No, I don't think yabu. It's quite easy to forget facts if you don't remember them
I think ww1 had something to do with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the Asutrain bloke, not the band.

I think that even the finest historical minds in the world struggle with this, it is fiendishly complex!

Oh god just reread op. Ignore my answer

Yanbu to find it confusing!

Because a car turned the wrong way down a street and so Franz F was assassinated.

The best way to think about it is actually the logical culmination of long-term imperial disputes between Western powers over the last century and a half. Then suddenly warfare had a technology and drive behind it it had never had before - and 19th century methods jarred with shells and tanks.

I don't get Russia.

It's hugely complicated but there is a really good horrible histories clip that explains it really well.

Ds is really into ww1/ww2 history and astounded his teacher by expertly explaining the causes of ww1!

The direct cause of WW1 was the assassination of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand, the nephew and heir of Emperor Franz Josef of Austria, followed by lots of insulting name calling between various diplomats. However, the war had probably been inevitable for at least 20 years, as the various Great Powers of Europe were all jockeying for position and there'd been an arms race going on since at least the 1890's.

It is most confusing!

WW2 is far easier although I can't pronounce Auschwitz.

It's the sort of thing historians argue over a lot, too. I'll probably get this wrong, but will try anyway...
Roughly speaking, Austria held Serbia as a territory.

A Serbian nationalist man (who was actually ethnic Bosnian but never mind that detail) shot the Archduke to try to get Serbia/later Yugoslav area independence from Austro-Hungarian empire.

Austria, outraged, blamed Serbia govt & made loads of demands.

Serbia refused some, Austria declared war.

Russians sided with Serbia and joined in.

Germans felt sympathy with Austria (and saw imperialist possibilities) so declared war too.

Croats sided with Germans (Catholic affinity). Other countries & ethnic groups took sides. It got messy.

England/UK joined in because everyone was afraid of German power. And wanted to protect colonial interests which were being threatened, or wanted to get influence in important areas (like the Ottoman / Turish empire / which was fast collapsing and oil-rich).

It was like a series of dominos. Everyone blamed Germany in the end, but that's a whole 'nother story.

There was basically an arms and naval race. You need to look back at Prussia which went on to become Germany and rising tensions in Europe there were agreements. Entente Cordiale between Britain and France and (I think) an Austrian Hungarian pact. These divisions caused tension which lead to war

Ah thanks trout, I think I got some of that.

So to explain to DS - when FF was assassinated, Serbia used this to try and get what it wanted, everyone else got involved and the rest quite literally is history?

I did this at A level...

1. Serbia was allied to Russia.
2. Russia was allied to France
3. Germany was nervous about France having taken Alsace Lorraine off them in 1871 and was waiting for France to ask for it back.
4. Germany had an unconditional alliance with Austria-Hungary
5. Austria-Hungary was opposed to Serbia as Serbia kept trying to claim the bit of Austria-Hungary the Archduke was visiting when he was assassinated
6. Britain had rather reluctantly allied with France, to a greater extent than most of the government realised.
7. Britain and Germany had become antagonistic over dreadnoughts and the Boer War
8. It was believed that whoever mobilised their army first would win.
9. Germany only ever thought it would fight France.

So...

1. Austria-Hungary had been itching to have a go at Serbia so used this as an excuse to declare war on Serbia.
2. Russia declared war on Austria-Hungary because they were allied to Serbia and had ongoing niggles with Austria-Hungary
3. Austria-Hungary demanded that Germany declare war in support, but Germany only had a plan to attack France and they were basically stuffed when it came to their eastern border. However France was allied to Russia so they declared war on France anyway.
4. Britain was able to persuade popular opinion that it was okay to join in with the war once Germany went through Belgium.

tl:dr - there were some really stupid fuckers in charge.

My understanding was that the assassination set of a chain of events that brought allies in but the tensions and nationalism had created a perfect theatre for a war. If it hadn't been the assassination it could have been something else or the same event in a different era could have been a small political crisis.

x post - I'd quibble tentatively with yeOldeTrout only on the Catholic affinity of Germany. Prussia was Protestant and Bismarck had massive fallouts with the Pope. The religious divide between northern and southern German states was still an issue in the 1870s

Some of Serbia was independent, and there was the Pan Slavism movement.

I go with the 'stupid fucker' theory, to be honest.

'I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.'

Have a read of Ben Elton's time and time again if you want a fucked up version of what happened and what could happen if it had never happened.

I totally just came scrolling through to check someone had posted that, Rocker

amicissimma Some very few generals got the new technology stuff, after analysing what happened in the American Civil War and the Seven Weeks War. Nobody wanted to listen. Old generals want to re-fight the last war. Old habits of thought die hard.

I've had a quick shufti around, and my A level is way out of date, but I still stick with 'stupid fuckers'.

Haha Diseases

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Might be worth a tongue in cheek watch.

Watch the Horrible Histories sketch on it, great explanation!

I was going to suggest HH too.

It's the closest I've ever come to understanding it.

Rockermummy I wanted to say that!

Also recommend HH.

I really recommend this series, which you can get on DVD now. It was made for the WW1 Centenery:

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/entries/438cb4d0-d8f8-37d0-a436-b9d6fa04bcc7