To have never really understood why WW1 started?

[Blackcloudsbrightsky]

My son asked me tonight and I could only vaguely talk about an assassination. I went on google and am none the wiser. Have A level History at grade B as well so I can't be that stupid well maybe

Is there anything you Just Don't Get? And AIBU to think this WW1 business is confusing?

I had to see two children through this module, I also personally found WW2 more interesting.

When my second DD did this, four years ago, they were putting much more emphasis on Kaiser Bills hatred for the British (he loved his GM Queen Victoria, though) because his Mother had insisted on English doctors and he blamed them for his disabilities and her death. His personality played a big part in his bad decision making.

But there was crisis, as said, all across the world.

That's why the UK ever started the Welfare System, we didn't want a revolution and a questioning of Monarchy.

My grandfather was invalided out of the Indian Army at the siege of Qut after a career that began in the late 1890s after graduation from Sandhurst, and my dad was an RAF pilot from 1936 to when he crashed his plane in 1941, and afterwards an intelligence officer in the Irish Army.

I can assure you your view is a hippie view, which tends to involve traces of undigested Marxist historiography. There is nothing wrong with Marxist historiography per se. Every approach lends something to our general understanding, but only if every approach is understood and evaluated.

Some good potted histories, but what has been missed is that the reason Britain entered the war was because German forces, in order to create a front against the French, invaded Belgium, violating a neutrality treaty to which the UK was a signatory. The UK therefore declared war on Germany - which led to the German defence minister declaring "You are going to war over a peace of paper".

Next time anyone tells you those who fought in the First World War died for our freedom, tell them they are talking shite.

Germany, Austria and Italy are standing together in the middle of a pub when Serbia bumps into Austria and spills Austria’s pint.

Austria demands Serbia buy it a complete new suit because there are splashes on its trouser leg.

Germany expresses its support for Austria’s point of view.

Britain recommends that everyone calm down a bit.

Serbia points out that it can’t afford a whole suit, but offers to pay for the cleaning of Austria’s trousers.

Russia and Serbia look at Austria.

Austria asks Serbia who it’s looking at.

Russia suggests that Austria should leave its little brother alone.

Austria inquires as to whose army will assist Russia in compelling it to do so.
Germany appeals to Britain that France has been looking at it, and that this is sufficiently out of order that Britain should not intervene.

Britain replies that France can look at who it wants to, that Britain is looking at Germany too, and what is Germany going to do about it?

Germany tells Russia to stop looking at Austria, or Germany will render Russia incapable of such action.

Britain and France ask Germany whether it’s looking at Belgium.
Turkey and Germany go off into a corner and whisper. When they come back, Turkey makes a show of not looking at anyone.

Germany rolls up its sleeves, looks at France, and punches Belgium.
France and Britain punch Germany. Austria punches Russia. Germany punches Britain and France with one hand and Russia with the other.

Russia throws a punch at Germany, but misses and nearly falls over. Japan calls over from the other side of the room that it’s on Britain’s side, but stays there. Turkey punches Russia in the back of the head when Russia isn’t looking. Britain and France tell Turkey that’s not on and once they’ve sorted Germany out Turkey’s next. Italy surprises everyone by punching Austria.

Australia (and New Zealand) punches Turkey, and gets punched back. There are no hard feelings though because Britain made Australia do it.

France gets thrown through a plate glass window, but gets back up and carries on fighting. Russia gets thrown through another one, gets knocked out, suffers brain damage, and wakes up with a complete personality change.

Italy throws a punch at Austria and misses, but Austria falls over anyway. Italy raises both fists in the air and runs round the room chanting.

America waits till Germany is about to fall over from sustained punching from Britain and France, then walks over and smashes it with a barstool, then pretends it won the fight all by itself.

By now all the chairs are broken and the big mirror over the bar is shattered. Britain, France and America agree that Germany threw the first punch, so the whole thing is Germany’s fault. While Germany is still unconscious, they go through its pockets, steal its wallet, and buy drinks for all their friends.

Might share that story with DS ... Although I'm not sure his teacher would be impressed.

Today, we have had questions about potato famines and the American civil war.

I think DS is going to study history at university. Either that or he's been reading horrible histories again!

PPs have explained the basics so I won't repeat (and Yanbu, it's really complicated) but OP just to answer your other point, Auschwitz = ow-sh-vitz (more or less).

thanks twinkle - much appreciated!

I think it was public pressure wasn't it - showed DS some posters from that time last night. I think he's too young for Dulce but perhaps not - might try to read that to him at some point before this November.

Blind acceptance, I think.

Austria-Hungary demanded that Germany declare war in support, but Germany only had a plan to attack France and they were basically stuffed when it came to their eastern border.

I'm not sure that's correct. Germany did expect that France would be its biggest threat and the Schlieffen Plan was focussed on that, incorporating the idea that they'd likely have to go via Belgium to circumvent most of France's fortifications.

But the Germans also knew that they would struggle to fight on both their eastern and western borders simultaneously but that the circumstances of the pact between Russia and Serbia meant that Russian involvement was inevitable.

Germany thought that France could mobilise quickly but that Russia would take longer to get its troops mobilised. So the German plan was to take out France so fast that it would be neutralised before Russia got its act together. That would then leave the German troops free to be shunted back from France to Russia. As it turned out Russia mobilised more quickly than expected plus France wasn't the push-over Germany expected it to be.

It was that need to act fast so that Germany could be ready for the Russian army that was one of the reasons why the war escalated so quickly and why diplomatic solutions weren't given time to bear fruit.

HowardTJMoon I think you are exactly right.

JennyTails - I luffs you.

Brilliant, JennyTails .

Indeed, Howard. The German fear of Russian response was also responsible for the German-Ottoman alliance (on the German side anyway; the Turks thought Germany would win and sought to be on the winning side). The bombardment of Russian Black Sea ports of Sebastopol and Odessa by Turkey/Germany and ongoing naval operations in the Black Sea were an attempt to destroy the Russian Black Sea fleet and by all parties to knock out shipping of vital supplies to their enemies. Turkey also attacked southern Russia in the Caucasus, partly to draw Russian naval power out of the western Black Sea and into the east to support troops against the Ottomans on land, and that melee the clash between a Muslim empire and a Christian one formed the backdrop to the Armenian genocide.

German war aims in the east developed as the war progressed. They started the war with the Septemberprogramme, whose aims included territorial gains in western Russia (along with the industrial and agricultural capability that came with those territories) but quick victory was denied them in France so they had to adapt. Even so, at war's end, they held vast areas of newly Bolshevik Russia. They hoped to hold Ukraine as a vassal state, and also the Russian Baltic provinces of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, forever. All were to have German ruling elites. When the 1918 western offensive in the west failed many Germans blamed the loss of manpower that was engaged in holding the east. There are some similarities between the WW1 and WW2 German plans for the east (minus the murder of the Jews).

The posters and other propaganda from WW1 are very eye opening.

The Americans called their Committee on Public Information not a propaganda machine but 'propagation of faith', which they held to be superior to the German hate spewing and deceit. It wasn't above spewing hate however. There was much appeal to male chivalry, if that is the right word, with posters showing women and children being terrorised by the monstrous Hun. Alongside propaganda there was censorship.

The Irish response to WW1 is interesting because the Easter Rising occurred half way through, in 1916. The war had brought prosperity to Irish farmers -- exports to Britain were up. Many Irish men had signed up for service. Nationalist groups supported the war thanks to promises of Home Rule afterwards. Many of the poor saw a chance to earn a living. The destruction of Catholic sites like Louvain, that figured prominently in the history of Catholic Ireland, was a source of anger towards the Germans, along with the desire to avenge alleged rape and brutalisation of the Belgian population. Once the Rising occurred the tide of public opinion gradually changed.

'What was the public atmosphere like? What were the thoughts of people and had they been manipulated?'

The activities of the American Committee on Public Information were widely derided, including in the House of Congress and via comments by Senators. I think many people understood they were being conned. However, soldiering, parading around in uniforms, warfare, etc., had become part of the culture, part of what boys were exposed to from childhood in late Victorian times. The idea of going out and killing others was part of the wallpaper of young men's lives. Importantly, very few people had experienced a war (except for the French) in living memory, so war could be seen by ordinary men almost as a romantic, comradely experience, and its gory details could be overlooked.

The last wars of any consequence were the American Civil War (localised in America), the Crimean War (brief and a long time before), and the Boer War (very dirty indeed, and very hard fought, but remote and localised and with a clearcut winner). Other wars Britain had been involved in were against native forces in colonial situations, who were no match for the British forces.

The salient lessons of those wars had been overlooked -- the Gatlin gun featured in the American Civil War but the effect of machine guns on infantry was not fully appreciated.

The American perspective was almost irrelevant...

Yes indeed, but the control of information was a portent of the future.

I love JennyTails explanation.

Said Serbian nationalist was called Gavrilo Princip (IIRC) aligned to the Black Hand group and he actually missed his chance to place a car bomb (I think) under the Archduke's car so pootled off to buy a sandwich and contemplate the failure of his ambitions. He was eating his sandwich when all of a sudden the Archduke's car took a wrong turn down the street where the sandwich shop was. Princip whipped out his gun and took his chance.

Following the assassination there was a domino effect of treaties and alliances that led to war becoming inevitable. The Kaiser had some serious family jealousy with regard to empire building (he was closely related to the British Royal Family) and saw his chance. The arms race, especially the naval arms race, had been hotting up and everyone wanted to play with their new toys