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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be uncomfortable with the CM putting DS on the step for this long

40 replies

AradiaWitch · 13/09/2015 20:11

I honestly don't know if I am, DH agrees with the CM.

DH and I both work at weekends sometimes so we have a CM who comes to our house to look after DS 4 and DD 18 months. DS can be hard work sometimes, (this I know well) and we use 123 magic techniques which include using the time out step if we get to 3, or immediately if he hits or spits.

Tonight we got home and DS was sat on the step and the cm said that he had been there for 1/2 hour! We normally do it for 4 minutes. She said that he was eating his tea and used his fingers so she told him to use his knife and fork. So he hit out at her. Obviously unacceptable and so she put him on the step. So then it sounds like it turned into a battle of wills about eating his tea and she told him to come and eat his tea, he refused so she made him stay on the step. This went on till we got home.

I would have probably just said 'ok' to not eating his tea, took it away and just told him that was fine but he couldn't have anything else to eat. I am uneasy about combining food and punishment and if he doesn't eat anything I try not to make an issue of it.

The main problem I have was the amount of time he was made to sit on the step for. She is generally a good CM, DD loves her and she is fairly no nonsense which DS needs to be honest as he is stubborn and does push boundaries.

So, AIBU to be bothered by him being made to stay on the step for so long? I'm quite willing to accept that I am, but it just didn't sit right with me.

OP posts:

Wellthen · 13/09/2015 20:16

Did she make him sit on the step or did he refuse to come off it? Or was it like 'you can stay there until you're ready to eat your tea'?

There is a big difference between these three. One is unreasonable punishment, one isn't punishment at all and the third is probably a bad idea but you can see why she'd do it.

Find out the story properly before you say anything else.

Original poster

AradiaWitch · 13/09/2015 20:18

She said she told him he could come off if he came and ate his tea. He refused, so she made him stay there.

OP posts:

bearleftmonkeyright · 13/09/2015 20:19

I'm with the childminder on this one. I think she did the right thing Boundaries have been established by her doing this. She has actually helped your DS. Sorry I know its hard. I would support her on this as it will help in the long run.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 13/09/2015 20:21

If she asked him to eat tea and he was defient and rude, he would have been punished for rudeness not for not eating tea. (I agree not eating tea has the consequence of being hungry)

LynetteScavo · 13/09/2015 20:22

Yanbu - if he's that much of a handful though I'm surprised he actually stayed on the step that long...my boys would have run off! Are you sure he wasn't his choice to be there?

Blackcloudsbrightsky · 13/09/2015 20:22

He hit out at her?

Does he have any additional needs that you're aware of?

littleducks · 13/09/2015 20:23

Is he in nursery or reception?

Istrianlover · 13/09/2015 20:23

My DD used to refuse to get off after her 4 minutes time out. She would sit there for ages sometimes up to 30 minutes. She felt she had to be in control so if I said it was time to get off she would refuse. One time I picked her up and she ran back. I did then choose a different way of discipline!

Ask the full story. Did he stay on because he refused to say sorry? Or come to the table?

littleducks · 13/09/2015 20:24

Oh and had he apologised or was sitting there refusing to comply at all?

AlphabetStew · 13/09/2015 20:30

I'm not a fan of the naughty step anyway and half an hour definitely sounds like far too long for a four year old! The experts who use the naughty step technique tend to recommend one minute for every year of age.

I think it's important that your CM follows your preferences with regards to discipline but I guess they need a certain level of autonomy as they need to show that they are in charge in your absence. And then the fact that your DH agrees with the CM complicates it further because he should also have a say.

If it were me I would have a chat with the CM and look to discuss alternatives to simply leaving him on the naughty step. The fact that he was on it for half an hour would be a clear sign that it's no longer working. I would suggest to CM that if DS has been on the step for more than 10 minutes, or has been sent there more than twice in an hour (or whatever would be appropriate) then another form of discipline might be more effective. Whatever this might be is something to discuss.

TroubleinDaFamily · 13/09/2015 20:32

I am with the childminder.

He hit an adult ?? Alarm bells for me..

Sorry.

MrsHenryCrawford · 13/09/2015 20:37

Yanbu, 30 minutes is too long and I don't agree with punishments for not eating

Snossidge · 13/09/2015 20:39

Saying "you can come off the step when you are ready to sit back at the table and have tea" is a bit different to putting him on the step for 30 minutes imo.

Stompylongnose · 13/09/2015 20:39

We need more details.
4 minutes may not be long enough to calm down if you're angry. I have 3 kids and one of mind would have sat on the step far longer than 4 minutes because he's a sulker and wouldn't be calm after 4 minutes. My other 2 are laid back temper wise and would have been embarrassed and apologetic.
I'd have a chat with your son because hitting is pretty extreme for a 4 year old and personally I'd be wondering if he was hungry or thirsty to act out like that.

duckbilled · 13/09/2015 20:39

Is she a cm? I am confused that she is minding in your home? Does your ds normally go to her home for care? If so it may be that he is confused with the power dynamic of it being his territory?
I would use the minute of time out for each year of the child's life.

OneDay103 · 13/09/2015 20:40

Sounds like he chose to sit there which turned out to be 30mins?

museumum · 13/09/2015 20:41

It doesn't sound to me like she "made him" sit on the step for 30 minutes. It sounds like he was being rude and defiant and was given the option to return to the dinner table but refused.

I absolutely don't agree with "eat or sit on the naughty step" but if it was "come back and join us at the table" and he said "no" then I can see why she might say "well stay there then"

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 13/09/2015 20:43

Every time they misbehave the clock restarts. I can see how it got to half an hour if your child is difficult

goawayalready · 13/09/2015 20:44

i had a step refuser he refused to go on it and then he refused to get off it once he even fell asleep there

UptownFunk00 · 13/09/2015 20:45

Personally I think a minute for their age (starting at around age 3, as someone younger isn't going to understand this rule) is right.

However if he hit her, she was well within her rights. I know it sometimes happens but it's quite rare to hit an adult that isn't the responsible parent at that age.

I agree you shouldn't make a big deal about eating, otherwise it could become a problem.

If I were in her shoes I'd have offered 2 times for him to come back to his tea and added an additional 2 minutes each time. If by the 2nd time (8 minutes) he was refusing I'd have him not eat his tea, but know he wasn't going to be getting anything else. I'd also make it clear he'd be going back there if he hit out again.

Then I would've talked to you about his violent outburst.

Did he say sorry to CM?

johnImonlydancing · 13/09/2015 20:47

I was going to say what lynetteScavo said. Mine (3) would never have stayed there! what's your secret

Original poster

AradiaWitch · 13/09/2015 20:48

Blackclouds I don't know, re additional needs. He can be very, very difficult, the 6 weeks Hol almost brought me to my knees. He has just started in reception but when he started at the attached pre-school they had some concerns and referred him to the SLT. She assessed him and he showed some (in her words) 'unusual behaviour'. This was things like, when asked to point out a 'correct' answer to a picture sequence or problem he would deliberately choose the most 'wrong' answer possible. and his answers to other questions were not what you would expect a 3 year old to come out with.

She referred him to the paediatrician who assessed him and said it was just his personality. My family think there is something else going on. I honestly don't know, but he has nearly broke me emotionally.

OP posts:

amarmai · 13/09/2015 20:52

you don't win a power struggle- the defiance moves to another area.This is how to create a defiant child. work with him , ignore, distract, find some thing to praise and as Fatmomma says 'invent rewards not punishments' .

Blackcloudsbrightsky · 13/09/2015 20:52

That sounds really difficult

I would say it sounds really unusual to lash out at that age and especially at someone who isn't a parent or immediate carer.

Have you asked on the SEN boards here?

johnImonlydancing · 13/09/2015 20:53

To answer your question though: yanbu to think half an hour is a long time. But I don't understand why he hit her about using a knife and fork? Was there some build up to this? And did he actually connect with her, or was it a kind of 'threat' hit? (I ask because my 3 yr old used to hit us, was shown in no uncertain terms that this wasn't on, and now he no longer hits, but if very stressed will make a sort of show of hitting that clearly isn't going to connect. I warn him for this but don't treat it the same as if he had hit because I feel it shows he knows hitting is wrong and is controlling himself)

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