DH career decision? It it his or ours? AIBU?

[ostrichneck]

DH began with this company as a trainee. His original manager was a relative and he 'got the job' that way. Since then the relative has left & had had many jobs in between. Dh has continued to do well in the business and has an excellent reputation for being very good at his job, trustworthy and responsible. Colleagues cannot speak highly enough of him. He has tripled his salary in his 6 years, and they still invest any time and training into him that he requests. As far as we know, his job is stable.

Relative mentioned before has now come along with a new business opportunity (this is relatives 4th company in as many years but apparently this is the one) and wants DH to go and work for him (in the same field). He has already taken some of his colleagues from this business with him. Some of which are most definitely NOT regarded highly of in our field of work and are not trusted at all.

The salary offered is equal to that of what DH currently earns with no further incentives as far as I can see. And the further option of training that DH currently has is not available at this time.

It will also involve an element of working away.

The reasons I don't want DH to take the new opportunity are

1. Relative is inconsistent - each and every opportunity is the one until a new one comes along and previous one wasn't 'all that' anyway.
2. DH is well looked after in current company and highly regarded - the company has treated him (and continue to) so well that I can't see why he would want to leave. (FWIW - the last person that they invested so highly in, left to go to same person. This did not go down well as they were so disappointed and I believe he has burnt all bridges with this company now).
3. The kind of people that he is considering going to work 'with' - are the kind of people that he will end up working under because he was always their trainee when they worked with him at his current company - they mockingly called him the 'monkey' or the 'bitch' at this company.
4. I don't want DH to live in relative's shadow and for him to be known in the industry as moving around often, no loyalty and being relatives puppet.
5. I don't want him working away - it just doesn't suit my/our lifestyle prefernces. And I wouldn't have thought his either. Especially when we will have a newborn as well as young DC1.
6. If this opportunity doesn't work out, we have another baby on the way, and although he may find work again, I don't want the stress of us losing another salary for any period of time while I am on maternity leave.
7. A lot of people that are held in high regard in this industry have advised him to not go work with said relative and ex-colleagues for similar reasons to mine - therefore, it's not just MY opinion of these people/this opportunity.

The reasons that DH does want to take the job is that

1. What relative says 'sounds good'.
2. Some of the people that we work with cannot be difficult (nowhere near as difficult as the people that he would be going to work with IMO)

Although as I have said DH is so professional and level headed, he is quite easily ledimpressionable where this relative is concerned and sometimes has rose tinted glasses..

Its has caused us a couple of heated disagreements over the past few months and one big row. It goes away for a while and then relative is back on the scene and it comes up again... It has come up again today. I have told DH that I do not want to talk about it and row. If he makes the decision to do it, just tell me when it is done. I love him dearly and will always do my best to support him in whatever he does, but I can't if I think it will be detrimental to our family life and I don't think he is making the best career decision, which is so important to him....

If you managed to get this far, thank you very much but AIBU? Should I just give him my blessing? Am I going to be blamed in the future from stopping him pursuing his career as would have been his decision? If it had not been for my input, deep down I know that he would have gone to work with relative long before now...

The move sounds like a bad idea to me, but I think you have to talk it over with DH again. Sit down together and list the pros and cons of both options. Write them all down, anything you can think of. I think you'll have a long list of compelling list of reasons against change verses a short list of less tangible reasons to make the move.

Talk to each other, be a team, you'll work it out.

Maybe get him to tot up his entire package? Salary, pension contribs from employer, other benefits and then compare to what's on offer.

His current employers won't want to lose him but may take him for granted somewhat? Has he actually asked for a performance review and a development plan? Does he have colleagues who travel for work and he finds that attractive but he's not currently considered? Asking for a discussion about where he is going in the firm will do two things - indicate that he wants to get on and get promotion/new opportunity etc; and send a warning flag up that he may start looking around or already is.

Trust me that travelling for work gets old very quickly for the person doing the travelling as much as the spouse.

Laughing - tell me about it! I must admit relative had left by this point so no input or ability for him to interject!

If your DH has done so well and is so respected in the industry, he can't be a complete fool, surely. It would be interesting to see what he thinks are the advantages, he must believe there are some, to be tempted.

I believe you absolutely have a right to voice concerns over quality of family life etc and have input into that decision, but at some point your DH has to make his decisions over his employment.

Do you dislike this relative generally?

Could you ask DH to write down his pros list, rather than you giving him a list of your pros and cons of his employment Actually, get him to write his list and put it up here and MN can judge and make the decision

Thankyou Goringbit - very kind words!

Yes dreams - he is on courses to advance in company and career - they pretty much gave him everything he wanted in his review! His last pay rise was even offered rather than requested! I don't know what more he wants!

Purple - believe it or not, I really like this relative! As I said, we work in same field and so conversation is plentiful, we have a good joke also at family events, have kids with similar interests etc. If he wasn't such a chopper and a changer, I would certainly rate him professionally too! I just sometimes think he is a dreamer and a chaser (not bad for some!)

I think I might do that. Get his list and see what you think!

Good plan OP

Thank you Ostrich... just a thought, but if you do decide to sit down and do pros vs cons, do it at a relaxed time of day, maybe with a glass of wine. Make it enjoyable, if you can, planning for the future together, rather than a battle to be won or lost.

I hope you get things resolved.

You and DH are a team and all decisions this big should be taken jointly - though each of you should be putting each other's happiness and wellbeing, and that of your children, ahead of your own. Easy to say but less easy to do.

If he is unhappy where he is, a move to a different company not influenced by this relative would be better than this move. It sounds like a terrible idea to me and I think you have every right to voice your concerns.

If we put the relative's involvement and influence to one side I am struggling to see what would incentivise your DH to take this new job.

A new employer has to find a way to attract a person to work with him. More money is of course the usual incentive, yet you say that the salary is the same and there are no additional incentives. Not only that but he will have to travel a lot (at a time when he has a new baby) and he will lose his training opportunities. If he accepts this offer then the overall impact will be negative on any objective analysis, so why on earth does the hypnotic relative think that your DH would go for it? He's taking him for a mug and recruiting someone when you know you've taken advantage of them is not a solid basis for a relationship.

Your DH says that the opportunity "sounds good". Does he mean by that that it seems to him that the relative is going to make a big success of it? So why should the relative get all the upside from your DH's hard graft and goodwill? At the very least your DH has to be looking at profit share or performance-related bonus in order to justify giving up something that not only "sounds good", it is actually proven to be good.

I'm also flabbergasted that he thinks that moving away from working with people who "can be difficult" (standard in any job) to working with people who called him "bitch" and "monkey" (outrageous bullying) is a positive thing.

As a final point, I'd say that the time of birth of a new baby (even if it is not your first) is a huge life event and will change so much about the rest of your lives. Why rock the boat further by throwing a totally unnecessary job change into the mix?

Is it possible that he's afraid of the responsibility and actually wants to travel and get away?

I hope you can talk this through calmly with him and reach a decision. It's great that you work in the industry too and so can offer proper insight into the decision. Do you do the same actual job within the industry?

As the new job would involve working away, ie would require you to have sole responsibility for childcare with no break for extended periods, yes it has to be a joint decision. Because it's going to have an impact on you too: it isn't ok for one partner to unilaterally decide the other is going to be taking on more of the childcare without regard to their feelings. And a job that's going to decrease a family's security where there are children to support should also be agreed. Particularly as you're pregnant, therefore likely to find it hard to secure better paid employment to make up any shortfall if he lost his job, and are likely to have at least a couple of months where you're not fit to work at all. It's especially risky just now. So I'd say in that scenario, you should have right of veto.

However if it were just a case of him working with people who were previously obnoxious to him in the past, and being seen as his relative's puppet, I think those would have to be his decisions/mistakes to make himself. If he were bringing in the same salary and working the same hours, it wouldn't really be up to you to tell him who he should and shouldn't be junior to. So YANBU, but only because of the working away and insecurity.

It also might be helpful to consider under what conditions you would advocate him moving to this position in this company or another in the industry.

For instance, if they offered him a 50% salary increase would you consider it more positively?

What if he could work from home 2 days a week?

where are these jobs where you can delay your start for 2 years?

The relative wants him and is chasing him, the relative will still be a relative in a couple of years and so the DH holds the cards here. He can say that he would rather wait until the business is on a firmer footing and come in at a higher level but is aware that the relative may have found someone else inthe meantime.

He isnt saying "keep the job open for me" but "Now isnt the right time but if you are still keen for me to join you in a couple of years then that might be a better time" That happens in a lot of industries. I am related to someone who did that and managed to negotiate a great package when she did finally move as they were so desperate to get her, they created a position specially for her.

s the new job would involve working away, ie would require you to have sole responsibility for childcare with no break for extended periods, yes it has to be a joint decision. Because it's going to have an impact on you too: it isn't ok for one partner to unilaterally decide the other is going to be taking on more of the childcare without regard to their feelings.

Thats a very good point. Maybe ask him how he would feel if you unilaterally decided that you were taking a job that affected the hours he could work and the jobs he could do and see if he can see that taking this job affect you too and therefore you have just as much say about it. How would he cope if you were to refuse to do the extra childcare and got a similar job yourself? Where would he find the money for a nanny to cover the overnights etc?

Not saying you would say no, but they are points to make.

YANBU Even without dc dh and I always made new job decisions jointly as they do impact on you both.

YANBU. Your DH must not in any circumstances be tied to this relative's apron strings. He should stay well away and be his own man and forge his career on his own terms and merit.

If you were child free I'd say it was his choice, but given that the new position would greatly impact on you/children then he's being unreasonable.

Which relative is it?

YANBU
It's hell having a DH who works away a lot when the DCs are little. They get tired, you get tired, the kids miss their dad, he misses them (and often ends up spoiling them when he is home, and not really parenting them) Stuff in the house doesn't get done, relationships get strained, social life is difficult. You do deserve a lot of say in that aspect of it, as well as in being able to see through the relative's BS.

Just an update... DH's pros are that

1. It is not working away - this is bollocks really as I know others in the company who were on the same promise & are now working away from home. I have asked him to be realistic and see that if others have gone on the same promise and it hasn't been fulfilled, the likelihood is that the same will happen to him. As he is being told by hypnotic (I liked that) relative that it will not involve him working away, he refuses to see my side of the argument for it.

1. The relative's company has a healthier order book than his current company. I can't argue with that but the healthier order book is not home based work. (yet he still thinks he wont be working away - he thinks he can do a physical job 200+ miles away from where the job is )

The company he is with now have an order book that sees him well into next year and a pipeline of work in the same location as where he is now.

I've kind of lost the will to fight it anymore without getting upset or mad, so it looks like he will make his choice alone and I've lost this battle. Thanks all for the responses anyhow, you've been very kind

Poor you ostrichneck. I would also be worried. Now you have only posted his pros. Could you get him to think through the cons? Even if he disagrees he'll not be working away, surely he'll feel the need to prove himself by putting in extra hours initially and that will have a negative impact on seeing the children?

Another con for the new job is lack of redundancy if the worst was to happen, 6 years is decent service.

Have you said to him that you will not be pulling up the slack outside his current working hours and he needs to factor in paid help to cover his half of the domestic work?

A cleaner, au pair, nanny whatever....?

little is right there too. When H got made redundant after 8 years it was enough to see us through 8 months of bills etc. If he got made redundant in the next 2 years your husband would get precisely nothing.

And dont lose the will to fight.

Just say "I am not supporting you doing this. I dont believe it is right either for your career personally or for us as a family. You must take this on your own shoulders and any extra work it creates in terms of child care etc must be met by you as I will not sideline my own career so that you can pursue this"