I think my sister was out of order

[radiodad]

So the background to this is my wife passed away 6 months ago. We have 4 DCs together. DD1 (11) DS1 (7) and DD2 and DS2 who are twins (4).

It has been really difficult DD 1 in particular is finding it incredibly hard. She has just started secondary school and she is also starting puberty and she could really use her mum to talk to.I have tried to talk to her a bit but she finds it a bit embarrassing talking to her dad about it.
She has a therapist but she is very wary of opening up to her. She has always been very shy and takes a while to open up to strangers and she is finding everything even harder now.

So I asked my sister if she could talk to her about everything so she can have a female to talk to about anything she wants. My sister can be a bit self-involved but when my wife died she promised to be there for us for anything and she has been helpful getting food shopping and helping buying the DCs stuff ready for school.

My sister was keen to help and so she picked DD 1 up from school on Wednesday and took her back to hers for ice cream and a chat.
They arrived back later than planned and DD went straight to her room. I asked my sister what they had talked about. My sister said she had promised to keep it a secret but DD was fine and just a little upset because in the car on the way home she had become upset for no obvious reason.
I went upstairs to talk to her later and DD said she was fine and she was just tired.

So yesterday when she got up for school she said she felt sick and wanted to stay home. She didn't eat her breakfast and she doesn't usually have days off so I said fine. I had to go to work but I came back to see her on my lunch and break and she was lying on the sofa and very quiet not even watching tv.

At dinnertime DD 2 was talking about her day at school and then she dropped her fork and DD1 shouted at her and told her to concentrate on what she was doing then stormed off to her room.

I went to see her and she was sobbing into her pillow. I asked her what was wrong and in the end she told me that my sister kept trying to talk to her and DD 1 told her that she didn't want to talk just now. My sister told her that it was tough and she was going to talk to her because I was fed up of her whingeing (I have never said that). DD1 asked my sister if that was true and my sister said yes it was and everyone was really disappointed in her because She should be a mother figure for the younger DCs and she told her that sister was the only one who understood her so DD had to talk to her.
DD said that she didn't believe that I would say that and my sister insisted that it was true.
DD was really upset so sister talked to her for a bit about how unfair I was and how sister was the only one my DD could trust because teachers would report to me if she said anything. Then she swore DD to silence and told her that if she blabbed I would be really cross and probably tell the school that DD was a problem kid and all the teachers would hate her and her friends would stay away from her. Then sister repeated this in the car on the way home to remind her to keep quiet.

I told DD that sister was wrong and I would never do that and I loved her. She was still really upset , we talked and I reassured her for hours and she couldn't get to sleep till the early hours of the morning.
When she woke up I convinced her to go to school and I am hoping she will be okay today.

I called my sister and asked her why she did that and she said it was to get DD to open up. She was unapologetic because she says that her plan worked as DD did talk to her. She doesn't think she was in the wrong and became upset with me when I told her how angry with her I was. She says anyone would have done the same and I just can't see that because I am grieving and jealous that DD opened up to her and not me.
She claims to have spoken to my mum and my mum agrees that sister did the right thing.

So AIBU or was my sister out of order to say that to my DD.

"She says anyone would have done the same and I just can't see that because I am grieving and jealous that DD opened up to her and not me."

No. Just no. NO ONE I know would have done that to your DD. That's true "wicked stepmother" stuff, from fairytales, not RL, that is. Your sister has severe problems if she thinks what she did was in any way ok. Does she have children of her own?

I think you need to keep away from your toxic sister. What an absolutely fucking awful way to speak to a grieving child. Oh my god. Your poor daughter

I am sorry for your loss

and yes she fucked this little task up royally- lessons learnt- its only been 6 months bless you all

I would personally still use her for practical support but get your DD some good books about puberty/period and boobs etc. I think this will give her the basics- poor little bean

Its such early days, I am sure confidents will present themselves as time progresses OP- life can be kind this way.

wishing you the best- this too shall pass and sounds like you are dpoing your best

Your poor DD.

What is happening to my Body is a good book for young girls. You can get it from Amazon.

for you and your children.

Who the fuck bullies a child who has lost her mother into keeping secrets from her only other parent and "rock" and fills her head wih manipulative bullshit making her feel she is disappointing the only person she has left to love her unconditionally...and that she needs to carry a heavy burden because she's the eldest.

That you have to question if this is wrong - horrifically unforgivably wrong - shows just how toxic your own childhood (and your sister and possibly your mother) must have been.

That she didn't apologise but argued would make me cut her out cold turkey.

One of the cruelest things I've ever read.

I'm so baffled by this

essentially your sister was resoundingly nasty to your daughter, made up a bunch of lies to get your daughter "to talk" and is now defending her actions?

It's so horrible I'm wondering if something got lost in the explanations of what happened.

If your sister really believes it is the job of your 11 year old to be a substitute mother, and if your mother agrees with this, I am sorry to say, you would be better off keeping away from them till they come to their senses. It wouldn't be right to ask your DD to take that on if she 17 or 27 tbh - but at 11 it's absolutely staggering that it's even entered their heads.

How evil. I cannot get my head around how anyone could say that, let alone believe that they did the right thing. I'm sorry, but in your situation, I would have to cut contact with her. It's just unforgivable.

Oh my gosh your poor DD! If that's what your Sister really said to her she deserves a good shake, at least!! Has your sister got any children herself? I just can't understand why she'd be so cruel??! It makes ME want to cry!

As PP have suggested, once things have calmed down perhaps there's another Woman in her life that DD would feel comfortable chatting to? Someone on the other side of the family, or maybe the Mum of a special friend, or even a special friend of your DW?

Sending and best wishes to you and all the DC.

Out of order! YANBU!
Your sister clearly has no idea how to support someone who is grieving - and that includes both you and your daughter.
Do you have a female friend who might be a better role model? And be able to actually empathise with DD?
Sadly, sometimes family are just not the best people to be there in such situations.
You sound like a great Dad - keep going x

First sorry for your loss. You and your children will manage without this kind of 'help'. Your sister does not like you and wants to alienate your d's affections.
how can you find out for sure whether its true that your mother agrees with her?

The vicious, evil, bitch. I hope your DD gets over this incident soon.

It's probably worth letting school know about this set back so that they are aware and keeping an eye out.

I lost my dad two months before starting secondary school. They were able to change my tutor group so I stayed with my close friends from primary to ease transition. A supportive pastoral system really helps during times like this xxx

I can't believe that your sister told your dd to keep things secret and to talk only to her and not confide in her teachers because it would get reported back to you. This is just appalling.

What a dreadful time for you and your DC.

I winder if there is more to this. Was your sister jealous of your DW? I feel there is something else playing along here and your poor DD is the victim.

Wonder not winder !

Thanks for your replies.

I haven't spoken to my mum yet so I don't know if what my sister has said is true. I will go and see her this afternoon to talk to her about it.
I don't know if something go lost in translation. DD 1 repeated the same story as we talked about it more and she doesn't tend to lie either. She is very mature and she has very good comprehension. Plus my sister didn't say that my DD had the wrong end of the stick. She just said that she was trying to get DD to open up to her.

In hindsight I probably should have asked my DD if there was anyone she would like to talk to about it.
It's not so much that I can't talk to her about it me and my wife always had a policy that we are completely open with the DCs about any questions they have, it's more that she doesn't want to talk about it with me.
She does have lots of books about it. Before she died my wife had already talked about it too her and bought her books and period pads and showed her what to do with them in case she started at school.
I have another sister who is much more like DD and has DCs and has been through this before but we don't see her very often otherwise she would have been my first choice.

My sister has no children.

Thank god for that!

Is there a female teacher at your DD's school that she likes and would talk to? Or perhaps her best friend's mum?

Your sister was way past unreasonable. What a vile thing to do to a grieving child.

Condolences to you all, radiodad.

Does your dd have a close friend whose mum she could perhaps confide in?

The school are very good at supporting DD. I shall ask them to keep an eye out for her.

radiodad - what a bizarre way to get someone to open up, by attacking them essentially.

I take it your sister has never been really odd before?

don't see the link with her having no children - anyone with half a brain can see what she has done is unacceptable.

what is her obsession with getting your DD to open up anyway? Everyone processes grief in different ways, if your DD doesn't feel the need to talk to anyone about it, I think that's fair enough. She might want to later, she might not, but either way should be okay, she needs to do what she needs to do.

I do recall a girl at school losing a parent and one of her friends being very aggressive how she "must open up" but that was a teenage girl, I'd expect an adult to have more respect for how people handle grief in their own way.

Firstly I am so very sorry for your loss.

In terms of your sister - yes - her approach was at best naive at worst totally manipulative and egocentric.

As others have said - she can't be trusted to provide any emotional support to your children I would keep her at arms length in that respect moving forwards.

I can understand why you wish to give your daughter an adult female confident and I actually think that's a good idea, even if your sister cannot fulfill this role.

Did your wife have any close friends? It might actually be better to look to someone who had a close friendship with her mother (who can talk about her mum in a positive way and knew her personality, share stories etc) to help with your daughter. I'm sure anyone who was a good friend to your wife would be more than willing to help.

Good luck

So sorry for your loss. I would see if one of your dds friend's mums was willing to be open for chats if needed. They will be going through the same with their own at the same time and hopefully be sympathetic and age appropriate. You could just say 'friends mum has said if you have anything that you want to chat about but don't feel you can with me, she's at the end of a text/call/drop in'

Lorelei - can't answer for anyone else, but I asked if the sister had children because, if she did, they could be being manipulated and abused in similar fashion to the OP's DD.
I was in no way suggesting that women without children would think this was an appropriate way to deal with a bereft child.

Your poor, poor dd!!!

The last thing she needs is to be told her only remaining parent dislikes her and is fed up of her! Obviously she still doubted the truth of that because she did talk to you in the end, but the weight of that for for poor girl is awful! Any adult who could do that to a child needs to be kept well away from them!!!

Are the grandmothers around at all, for a female ear? Or the mums of any of her friends from primary? Rather than having them sit down and have a talk, maybe agree with them and dd that she can go to them if she needs to talk to someone not her dad? But that you are happy to talk to her about anything, remind her that you grew up with a sister and were with her mum for many years so you're aware of and not squeamish sbout "girls" things. Buy sanitary products to keep in a location she can access them if she needs to, without her having to come and ask, let her know you've done this.

for you and dd

Op your poor poor daughters. I'm so sorry for your loss too.
Yanbu at all.
I cannot believe your sister thought that that was an appropriate way to get your dd to open up!
I lost my dad a few years ago when i was in my twenties. I didn't handle it well, if someone had said that too me i would have lost it xx