to be annoyed about investment properties when so many people have no home?

[horlickslover]

So many established people beginning to "invest" in property again these days. Buying up ideal family homes and first time buyer homes to rent out or use incresingly (depending on area) for airbnb lets. I have to say it really annoys me. I know a few people looking around to buy second or even third homes as an investment. We have a house that is our home I just think it is a bit greedy to go and buy up available housing like that when so many people just can outbid wealthier people looking to turn property into an income. It would be totally fine if their wasn't the housing shortage there is but as it stands I think it is pretty greedy, selfish behaviour.

Mrs ultra you will get ignored because your argument is sound.
Our tenants:
1 recent divorc?? wanted to rent before buying as wasn't familiar with the area.
2 single working Mum with child- renting while saving for her own house.
3 newlyweds with dog still at uni. I suspect will start saving for their own place.
Renting was a stop gap for me too. I rented saved up and then bought.I don't remember feeling at all bitter or that my ll was selfish and greedy. This was early 90's when I had no chance of buying at certain times.

So much about the set up in the UK is unfair. Property is only part of it.

There will always be number of people who want to rent.

And a number of people who don't (or just don't want to under an insecure AST from a LL who won't let them put up a coathook).

If either of those two groups isn't getting its needs met, then there's potentially a problem.

At the moment in some regions the second group are getting utterly screwed. You can read the anguished threads on MN about behaviour of the bad LL (#notalllandlords), about whether they can keep a pet, about being outbid by LL when they try to buy...

The current situation is broken in some regions.

• "either group" being those who really do want to rent, and those who don't.

YANBU, renters have had the shitty end of the stick for decades now.

I like how some people above have acknowledged that it's selfish - but "I'm just providing for my family because savings rates are so bad erm guess what people trying to save for a deposit have it pretty bad too ". The thing is, if we DIDN'T have a housing crisis, this attitude wouldn't matter so much, but because everyone + his dog thinks they can be an amateur LL (ignoring the folks who have fallen into it accidentally), it genuinely does take away from the people that need to get their foot on the first rung.

Also - it seems to have been acknowledged but not really touched on - what happens when my generation approach retirement???? Still renting and with nothing to fall back on?? I don't even believe there'll be a state pension left by the 2050s so what are people meant to do?

I honestly believe the only solution will be to legalise euthanasia in about 20 years time

Yes, we are heading for a major crisis in two decades if the market doesn't correct. Even though it might mean my stupidly expensive house falls in "value" it's better for all if houses were generally more affordable. But the again, I would say that I wouldn't I, I'm not a landlord!

If there are no rental properties, where do people live who can't get mortgages for whatever reason?

Yes, that question of generation rent reaching retirement is also concerning me, TheSnufflet.

Although I suspect the only reason we're seeing this is as a generation thing is that we're in a transition at the moment.

From an economy where owning a house or having a "good quality" tenancy (council and some HA), is accessible to much of the population, to an economy where property ownership is much more concentrated and is handed down in families.

Then you'll either be in the rentier class or a perpetual tenant, and there won't be a generational divide.

These won't be an absolutely hard and fast class boundaries, of course, but there will be significant barriers to moving up, and a substantial safety net protecting rentiers from moving down. So, a return to the good old days, really.

Whose suggesting no rental properties? (I might have missed it.)

I'm pointing out that currently things are out of kilter, with huge numbers of people forced into renting who really don't want to.

PausingFlatly I think quite a few people who are currently in the position of owning a BTL portfolio think they'll be able to pass it all down and retain all the wealth within a family dynasty, whereas what I see happening is people gradually having to sell en masse in order to pay for care fees when they get much older, and ultimately their kids and grandchildren won't be in any better position.

The other thing is, it's really incredibly poor investment planning to have all your eggs in one very illiquid asset class. Just because it's been a sure bet for the past 30 years, people seem to think the party will go on forever. I know returns on other products are poor right now, but if the market does correct - and it's more likely this will happen eventually than a permanent, government policy-backed bull market in place - a lot of LLs will be leveraged up to the eyeballs and lose everything, as will their tenants (in the short term). It'll have really, really horrific social consequences.

I just hate the fuck you Jack, I got mine attitude that people seem to have about this, without thinking of the MAHUSIVE problems that are being stored up for the future.

I don't think 'fuck you Jack' but I do think a lot more people could do a lot lot to prepare for being 60 when they are 20.

Agree that's another likely scenario, TheSnufflet.

And there are probably more variations. Especially around which form of crash, and who it will affect.

There are several factors that drive up property prices, it's not just property investors. The main issue is supply and demand especially in big cities, London and the South.

Surely the reason most people choose to rent is because they don't have the 10% deposit to buy. A lot of people have different priorities with how they spend their earnings and saving every penny to get on the housing ladder is too far down the list of priorities to be considered. My DCs will struggle to buy a house in their twenty's even though they do have disposable income yet prefer to spend it on cars, phone, ipads, holidays, going out socialising etc.

I work in conveyancing and we have a lot of clients who are regular BTL landlords, however, interestingly we also have noted how many foreign investors are buying up London property, leaving the property empty for a year and then selling up for a tidy profit. That does create a shortage of property to live in if a considerable amount of properties are empty and sitting there just rising in value.

Yanbu at all, it's very greedy and makes it difficult for people to get on the property ladder.

Ahhhhh suzannefollowmyvan thankfully I do have an understanding of economics and thankfully I don't agree with you. Being sarcastic doesn't further your own argument. It makes you look silly. Banning people from owning second homes is beyond ridiculous. What else would you ban because you're simply unhappy that someone else can afford something you perhaps cannot? It's one step away from controlling the money people earn. Strange attitude

For those who are so against investment properties I have a question. If you were given the opportunity to buy a second and perhaps third property to rent out and make a tidy income for you and your family to enjoy would you turn it down? I suspect those of you would climb down from that high horse and become someone's landlord.....

We've been renting a house out for the last few years (inherited), the renters offered to buy it. Win-win. They weren't in a position to buy previously and we've made the rental money on top of the sale. We were all happy with the outcome.

That's fine, Spickle, to have different priorities. As long as you understand that something has to give. You can't spend all your disposable income of superfluous instant gratification at 21 then complain at 31 that you're stuck renting with 2kids and no money.

NoMoreRenting I don't think I did say I had different priorities. I actually agree with you in that it is important to think about later life and preparing financially for retirement. Like you, I have worked hard, saved up and restricted my social life in order to get on the housing ladder. However, a generation or two later appear to have different priorities, perhaps because a £20,000 deposit is so unattainable for many. My DC are of that generation and so are the young couple renting my other property.

My tenants chose to move out of their respective parents houses when they were 20 years old, and because they didn't have any savings, had to look at rental properties. They've been in my property for 7 years and now 2 children later and one lost income, they are struggling to pay their way, let alone save a deposit to move into their own home. That was their choice. It's not a choice I would have made but everyone's different.

Yes sorry I did understand you meant the younger generation rather then yourself.

I don't understand the 'oh, but we need it as a pension' argument. I have friends in their 30s who can't buy a house or pay money into a pension. I think the NIMBYs who block the building of new houses are just as selfish and greedy.

The fact that some people haven't organised their lives so that they're able to pay into a pension doesn't mean that no one should make provision for a pension though. The more people that are able to provide for themselves the better. It's also worth remembering that investing in property is probably the most highly taxed of all types of investment, it's not as if people investing in property aren't contributing anything to the rest of society.

No its not. Property has been a big tax loophole for many years.

They are now taxing foreigners and buy to letters more in the next few years and I expect this to keep happening. The government will look after the majority, they care about 50 people that can't afford a house more than someone with 50 buy to let's!

Renters comprise an increasing proportion of the electorate, they will put pressure on government to look after their interests and regulate the private rental sector.
With JC in opposition I think the BTL LL will find her time in the sun has come to a close ??