to be annoyed about investment properties when so many people have no home?

[horlickslover]

So many established people beginning to "invest" in property again these days. Buying up ideal family homes and first time buyer homes to rent out or use incresingly (depending on area) for airbnb lets. I have to say it really annoys me. I know a few people looking around to buy second or even third homes as an investment. We have a house that is our home I just think it is a bit greedy to go and buy up available housing like that when so many people just can outbid wealthier people looking to turn property into an income. It would be totally fine if their wasn't the housing shortage there is but as it stands I think it is pretty greedy, selfish behaviour.

I provide that service

no, you buy up essential and limited resources and charge other people to use them, driving up prices so that most people cant ever hope to own a home.

Landlords don't provide homes, they dont build properties...they commandeer properties which already exist.

It's no surprise that they take the opportunities available to enrich themselves at the expense of others...but stop with the kidding yourselves that you are providing a service to society.

It's just rational self interest

AKA 'homo economicus'

Hasn't the tax system recently changed to discourage buy to let?

If only it was that easy. Sure no one needs more than one home but when you have a 1 bed flat, 2 adults, one child, twins on the way and no way to sell that flat for even the outstanding balance of your mortgage so you can buy a home big enough you have to resort to plan b. Plan b is selling both cars and all worldly possessions of any value and living on canned beans and soup and fish fingers for months to scrape together a deposit for a house big enough to fit everyone. Of course the three bedroom house that you buy only costs ten grand more than what you paid for the flat at the height of the market and needs major works done but Everytime you get money together to say, remove the asbestos from the house or fit central heating, something goes wrong with the flat and the money is prioritised for that. Sure like many before said... nobody needs two properties but I can't get rid of mine without making at least a 5 grand loss. I'm struggling to find a fiver for a new tyre inner tube so where the he'll do I find five grand to sell the flat at a loss. People are so quick to judge all private landlords as the same but there are loads of us who never intended to be here.

Yes syne, obviously profit is hopefully (but not necessarily) going to happen somewhere.

No ones going to take that kind of financial risk and put in the work just for a warm fuzzy feeling. Of course there's going to be profit eventually, but small time BTLers aren't going to actually see any profit for years. They aren't using it to pay for their annual holiday, they're using it so they aren't destitute in their old age.

What about people who prefer renting?

There's nothing wrong with buying to let as long as the house is suitable for people to live in. Also , I disagree about being able to legally stay for longer than 6 months - if the landlord wants their house back, they should be able to get it back (with reasonable notice ofcourse). Likewise with decoration - you wouldn't cut a friend's top when she lends it to you, would you?

then no-ones really talking about you, your a landlord of circumstance and as such don't beat yourself up about it :)

@ sprocket

buying property to let was absolutely the smart thing to do if you had the money to invest.
But the net effect of individual decisions to maximise return on investment has been over inflated property prices.
I know it's not the only factor involved, and regulating it isn't easy, there are always unintended consequences, but most markets are regulated to some extent via incentives and disincentives, taxes etc.

the three bedroom house that you buy only costs ten grand more than what you paid for the flat at the height of the market

the problem is that you bought at the height of the market, it was a bad investment, and now you're up the creek, thats the risk you take with investments, you may well lose money.

I'm happy for my tenants to decorate. Of course, it's their home. I want them to stay for more than 6mths. I'm not trying to suggest I'm doing it for altruistic reasons, but I don't see it as immoral either. My property is not in an area where btl landlords have sent prices soaring. It is in an area where young families are living on below average salaries but also an area where people on reasonable young professional salaries can afford to rent an entire home. The rental market is very buoyant there.

if the landlord wants their house back, they should be able to get it back (with reasonable notice ofcourse). Likewise with decoration - you wouldn't cut a friend's top when she lends it to you, would you

you really think the 2 are analagous?
an item of clothing and a persons home?

they're using it so they aren't destitute in their old age

of course, but it means that other people, the losers in the game of musical chairs will be destitute in their old age

Hey Jack, I'm alright...pull up the ladder

YABU. I work hard and if I choose to invest in property then why shouldn't I? We'd be living in a communist state of it were up to people like you.

what a sophisticated understanding of politics and an economics you have have Mammabear

Suzanne Yes, it's the same gist. You can't make changes to something you don't own unless you have permission.

But Suzanne, like it or not, we do live I a market economy. I'm not convinced at all that banning people from owning a second home which they rent out will have the dramatic effect of lowering prices sufficiently so that everyone can buy. It's already a very cheap area.

I agree that renting as you approach retirement is a scary prospect. There is going to be s big issue with this in 20 or so years. But, lots of people (not all but a fair few) do spend their youth enjoying life going out going on holiday etc rather than staying in and spending nothing and saving every penny as a deposit. Dh and I had massive student debt but then spent 7yrs without a holiday and without ever going out to eat or to the pub or anywhere. We rented cheap in a scummy area and saved every penny. We put off having kids until very late. All pennies saved to get on the housing market. And of course, this will be difficult for some people even if they did save every penny but so many 20-30yr olds want holidays and nice clothes and evenings out instead of sitting at home saving every penny so they could reach 65/70 not worrying about keeping a roof over their head.

I see you also have a nuanced understanding of life the universe and everything Bereal :(

At 21 I thought about it clearly. I'd rather be bored and miserable in my 20s than destitute in my old age. More 21yr olds need to think about when they will be 51,61 or 71.

Do you live in the SE by any chance. Then rejoice - prices in many parts of the north haven't risen in years, you can come and buy up here. Prices start at £60,000 for 2 bed house and there is still a big rental market.

I rent out my old flat (in the north, not London). It is an investment for me - it will help supplement my virtually non-existent pension. Or shall I just rely on the next generation to support me when I get old?

like it or not, we do live in a market economy

yes
and?
what is it with this black and white thinking about economic systems??

there are many different ways to run an economy, it's no where near as simple as just communism vs capitalism, command vs demand
no markets are entirely free, the playing field is not level

@syne I get that, I just get soooo downhearted hearing all private landlords slated and banded as part of the problem. If the problem didn't exist in the first place I wouldn't be a landlord. I do my best, I don't charge extortionate rates, I just need the bills covered. I put the needs of the flat first before my own house, I pay repairs and maintenance out my own pocket, often getting into personal debt to do so and I try really really hard to be a good land lady. There are hundreds of people who have been forced into this so please recognise that not all landlords are get rich quick, fat cat type, slum landlords. It was never my ambition to do this but now that I have no choice I'm giving it my best shot.

Do you think that might be why people tend to own clothes, rather than borrow them all, bereal?

And we live not just in a (loosely) market economy, but in a state with the rule of law which, where it sees fit, is able to pass laws. It already regulates some aspects of housing rental, including leases, deposits and H&S. And it can change and improve regulation where a situation isn't working (which is why deposits ended up being regulated).

"I rent out my old flat (in the north, not London). It is an investment for me - it will help supplement my virtually non-existent pension. Or shall I just rely on the next generation to support me when I get old?"

In what way is this NOT relying on the next generation to support you when you get old?

Do you just mean, the next generation of someone else's family rather than your own?

I don't have a fundamental objection to the concept of private rental, but I do get very at some of the fairytales LL tell themselves!

No it's not completely free. There is graduated stamp duty depending on the cost of your house. So a couple of years ago we paid 40k in stamp duty to move whilst at the lower end of the market you pay nothing. You can get rid of the 250 SD threshold for btl properties or bring in legislation saying certain houses/areas etc are subject to a 3yr minimum tenancy with no rise in rent in this period. But supply and demand will always dictate price.

But pausing, it's not the next generation. It's the same generation.