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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

For not being arsed about the house being in his sole name for now?

57 replies

ThaiRice · 10/09/2015 13:23

Our house is actually officially DP's house as I am not on the mortgage or deeds.

Originally he put around ??20k on the deposit. I contributed ??2.5k. Since then we have jointly paid the mortgage but obviously on paper, I have no rights.

The idea was that we'd get the house in both names when the time came to remortgage. This time is now fast approaching (October) and now that DP has looked into it, he's apparantly discovered that it will cost us a fortune in stamp duty to change the title deeds or something.

We're getting married in May so my legal protection will come from the marriage from then on anyway so I'm tempted to just wait until we're legally married and then I have rights to the house anyway (I assume).

Part of me (cynical side) saw this coming - that the time would come to change the deeds and DP would discover 'issues' with doing so.

AIBU to think that we may as well wait until May as I would have my legal protection regarding the house after the marriage anyway or should I be pushing to get it done now? is he taking me for a mug or what?

OP posts:

Blinkinwinkin · 10/09/2015 13:41

Why don't you go and "look into it." and tell him what you have found out.
Like his stamp duty rouse is bollox.

But his refusal to jointly seek proper advice is not your main concern, this is:
Part of me (cynical side) saw this coming - that the time would come to change the deeds and DP would discover 'issues' with doing so.

This is your problem that needs addressing before you either remortgage or get married. It won't miraculously be solved when he buys you a ring.

kewtogetin · 10/09/2015 13:44

findlaw.co.uk/law/property/buying_property/500297.html
This is what we had many moons ago when we bought our first place in only my husbands name. A solicitor drew it up for us for the princely sum of ??100.
Ring your local solicitor, make an appt to draw up a deed of trust and tell your partner. Then sit back and watch him panic and try to worm his way out of it.....

WhereYouLeftIt · 10/09/2015 13:44

"Part of me (cynical side) saw this coming - that the time would come to change the deeds and DP would discover 'issues' with doing so. "
So you already knew he can't be trusted? So why are you marrying someone who is trying to shaft you financially ?

Theycallmemellowjello · 10/09/2015 13:46

I believe that you will have to pay stamp duty on the part of the mortgage that is being transferred to you - ie the outstanding part. You can work it out here - www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-tax/overview. You have to pay this whether or not you are married. If you are married you won't have any property right in the house automatically. However, in the case of a divorce you would have the option of going to court and trying to convince the judge that you have an equitable interest in the property based on the mortgage payments you've made and also your partner's intention. So anything your partner has said or written down about the house being also yours would be relevant. But obviously relying on a court settlement after the fact is risky (as the court could decide you are entitled to only a small proportion of the house's value) and likely to be very expensive. You are also potentially at risk of the house being sold or remortgaged without your knowledge (though again you could fight a legal battle after the fact to try to get back the proportion of the sale/mortgage value that is yours). Personally I would want to be named on the deeds despite the expense (unless your mortgage will be paid off very soon, in which case it might make sense to wait - if the mortgage is paid off I think there will be no stamp duty). Find out exactly how much it would be (get your own legal advice).

Collaborate · 10/09/2015 13:48

You don't have to, on divorce, prove an equitable interest. The starting point anyway is an equal division.

OneHandFlapping · 10/09/2015 13:55

I don't think stamp duty has anything to do with the mortgage. It's based on the price of the house.

StatisticallyChallenged · 10/09/2015 14:00

General comment - the situation is different in Scotland re matrimonial homes. Don't know where op is but also for anyone reading

Original poster

ThaiRice · 10/09/2015 14:00

So if I was to suggest that we both go and speak to a mortgage advisor, this would be a reasonable request? He just gets angry when I suggest this and makes out that I'm being difficult for the sake of it

OP posts:

DisconcertedAndRetired · 10/09/2015 14:03

He may just be as confused about stamp duty as half the people on this thread. I found a Guardian article that explains the issues.

www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/07/stamp-duty-payable-transferring-part-property

Summarising what I learned from that:-

It being payable is nothing to do with the existence or size of the mortgage
It is related to the value amount paid relating to the transfer (amount paid may bear no relation to value)
Even if you paid half the house value on transfer, that would fall below the threshold where stamp duty applies, so there wouldn't be any.
You're not paying him anything, so actually if there were no threshold to fall below, there would still be no stamp duty.

SilverShadows · 10/09/2015 14:06

Mortgage Adviser here.
In England, to add a second party to a mortgage (or take one off for that matter) is not subject to any stamp duty. There would only be stamp duty to pay if the complete ownership was to pass from one party to another.
In your instance, adding someone is called a "Transfer of Equity".
You will have to pay legal fees (usually about £250) to be added, and at this point you will need to decide if you are "joint tenants" (own the property completely jointly) or "tenants in common" (you each own a specific share of the property, for example him 90% you 10%).

In the interests of protecting yourself in the event of his death, as a PP pointed out, you need to get on that mortgage pronto.

sparechange · 10/09/2015 14:07

You're not over the stamp duty threshold, so you should be ok.
But you need to start this process before you start the remortgage process as it will massively slow it down and you'll possibly lose your deal.
When you bought the house, did you like the solicitor you used for the conveyancing? If so, call them now and ask for a quote for adding your name onto the deeds ahead of the next remortgage, and also get a quote for drawing up 2 wills.

BUT, it is correct that if you want to 'add someone onto the deeds', stamp duty could be payable on the whole value of the house. Which is something MN threads never ever seem to take into account when encouraging people to 'just' add themselves onto the deeds of a house that they live in. It isn't always that simple...

laureywilliams · 10/09/2015 14:07

That would be a reasonable request.

As would something like "x at work did this and there is no stamp duty payable so lets get that changed because if you get run over by a bus tomorrow I'm sure you want me to have the security of owning the house"

Does he have a will? Does it leave the house to you or his brother?

WhereYouLeftIt · 10/09/2015 14:09

"He just gets angry when I suggest this and makes out that I'm being difficult for the sake of it"
Again, he's trying to shaft you financially.

DisconcertedAndRetired · 10/09/2015 14:12

I think I see where the mortgage issue comes in - effectively transferring some debt from his name to yours means you've paid him that amount for your share of the property. Still no stamp duty in your case though, because you are below the threshold.

Collaborate · 10/09/2015 14:13

Disconcerted & silvershadows I'm afraid you're both wrong!(highlights how easy it is to get it wrong).

SD is paid on the whole consideration paid. So on a transfea mortgage free property for no payment there is no SD.

If there is a transfer for no payment but the property is mortgaged, the consideration becomes half the value of the debt the new joint owner is taking on. Look at the link in my first post on this thread. It;s from the HMRC website, and gives OP's example. Can't get clearer than that.

Collaborate · 10/09/2015 14:14

Cross posted Disconcerted. I think we're on the same page now!

specialsubject · 10/09/2015 14:15

hmm...you are marrying a man who just gets cross when you ask for financial discussions.

why?

LadySheherazade · 10/09/2015 14:18

There is no stamp duty the property isn't worth enough.

And a transfer of equity (TOE) to put you on costs about £250, or it did when I added DH to my mortgage. He put nothing into the deposit by the way, but we weren't married so in the eventuality of something happening to me I didn't want him to be left homeless!

BTW, when we remortgaged we didn't do anything other than choose a mortgage, ask if the free legals included TOE (it didn't, the sols said they would do it for £250ish) and then remortgaged.) It was really really simple and just required ID and payslips etc as normal.

Tyrannosaurus · 10/09/2015 14:18

He really doesn't want you on the deeds does he?? I'd be tempted to agree to leave it, as long as he is happy for you to stop paying your share of the mortgage. After all, if he is so determined that you should not own any part of the house, why the hell should you be paying his mortgage for him?

Twindroops · 10/09/2015 14:20

Please have a very long think OP, not just about the mortgage and the house but about your relationship. Being married full stop is hard (but if right, wonderful!) work. Being married to someone you can't trust financially and clearly doesn't want you being "difficult" (WTF?) I would imagine is pretty soul-destroying, and not a recipe for a happy fulfilling life.

abbieanders · 10/09/2015 14:22

Do you think he's planning to avoid getting married?

Micah · 10/09/2015 14:48

o/p, get legal advice. You're own legal advice. DOn't wait around for him, don't go with him. You need a solicitor who is acting in your best interests, as an individual.

Theres a lot of conflicting advice and ideas on here. I don't think that marriage protects you, as any individual assets remain individual after marriage. Only joint assets, and assets accumulated after marriage, are split in a divorce (except inheritance, which still remains the individuals).

I agree with pp who says at the very least you need a joint account out of which mortgage, maintenance, bills etc are all paid. Stop paying him unless you can prove your money is for x,y and, z. Just giving him £x a month "for the mortgage" proves nothing.

Donotknowhownottomind · 10/09/2015 15:36

Being married to someone you can't trust financially and clearly doesn't want you being "difficult" (WTF?) I would imagine is pretty soul-destroying, and not a recipe for a happy fulfilling life.

I agree with this completely. I am married to someone (and we have 3 dc) who doesn't want me on the deeds of the family home and who refuses to discuss it without losing his rag. I definitely definitely would not have got involved with him had I realised exactly how excluded and kind of financially powerless I would feel.

Things have to be on your joint terms, not just his.

Chippednailvarnish · 10/09/2015 15:40

Why do you need him to get legal advice?
Ffs assert yourself and start calling solicitors and see who will see you initially for free to see what the truth of the situation is.

He's lying and you know it.

ImperialBlether · 10/09/2015 15:55

Did you move into this house together or did you move into it after he'd bought it?

I don't understand why you're planning to marry a man you can't trust. Do you really think things will get better? If so, what are you basing that on?

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