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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to get a bit irritated with all the virtue signalling on MN

192 replies

OTheHugeManatee · 09/09/2015 13:06

Virtue signalling = going on really loudly about how much you hate something that's considered right-on to hate (eg UKIP, the Daily Mail) in order to tell the world how kind, compassionate and generally virtuous you are.

I see it all the time on MN. It's the moral equivalent of stealth boasting. Instead of saying 'Look at how much more kind and compassionate I am than most other people' virtue signallers claim really loudly to hate something 'bad', thereby hinting at their superior niceness rather than bragging about it out loud.

As well as being thoroughly in bad faith it creates a climate where sometimes quite difficult and nuanced issues can't be discussed, because any attempt to weigh different sides is drowned out by people using that issue to signal their own virtue.

I'm averagely right-on, averagely selfish/kind/whatever, generally fairly normal I suppose in my ethical views. But I find all this posturing hypocritical and very irritating. The internet seems to be making it worse. AIBU to wish it would stop?

OP posts:
seagreengirl · 09/09/2015 13:46

YANBU, and constantly being "sickened, appalled, disgusted" with posters, and how MN, and basically everyone else, is "uncaring, lacks empathy" etc.

It's virtually impossible to discuss some subjects here these days.

Itsmine · 09/09/2015 13:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoboChic · 09/09/2015 13:47

Does the OP not realise the paradox of her own posturing? Confused

HomeHelpMeGawd · 09/09/2015 13:48

In what sense is your own post not simply a different version of virtue-signalling itself, OP?

You're just signalling to a different crowd who share your views.

We all do it all the time. This post does it. It's part of the human condition, as is using heuristics (eg 'if source = DM, then conclusion is a load of shite) as a shortcut for working through issues fully.

squoosh · 09/09/2015 13:48

Indeed, she's almost willy waving her own virtues.

Original poster
OTheHugeManatee · 09/09/2015 13:48

It seems almost as if you accuse anyone going beyond the moral standards that you consider "normal" to be guilty of deliberate moral one-upmanship.

Not quite. What standards people choose to live by is a matter for individual conscience. What I'm grumbling about is people who make a performance out of their moral standards. It passes for virtue but it's not, it's exhibitionism.

OP posts:
BoboChic · 09/09/2015 13:48

X-post Grin

BlueJug · 09/09/2015 13:50

Interesting spectator article Malinapalina

WorraLiberty · 09/09/2015 13:53

YANBU

Your OP sums up exactly how I feel. I didn't even know there was a name for that sort of thing Grin

Badders123 · 09/09/2015 13:54

I quite like Boden :)
Don't see what on earth that has to do with anything
I also love game of thrones and re runs of Lewis.
What does that say about me?
Why should I care?
If I think someone is being offensive/disablist/racist/homophobic for the sake of it/goading posters then I will challenge and report.
If they are just spouting their truly held beliefs then I shake my head, realise they are more to be pitied than censured and do not engage.

diplodocus · 09/09/2015 13:56

I know what you mean. It's like posters who start a thread at how sad they feel at having witnessed an episode of less-than-optimal parenting (like a mother texting instead of chatting to their toddler on the bus). It's all about them wanting people to know how sensitive and child-centred they are (by the way I'm obviously not talking about witnessing real abuse).

Original poster
OTheHugeManatee · 09/09/2015 13:57

In what sense is your own post not simply a different version of virtue-signalling itself, OP?

I suppose if you define virtue signalling as any kind of statement that gives others a clue about one's ethical stance then yes, I'm virtue signalling. That's not how I define it though.

I see virtue signalling as utterances which are ostensibly about a topic but whose actual or main function is a meta-communication about the virtue of the person speaking. The purpose of this post isn't to signal to you all that I have a particular moral stance, it's to discuss virtue signalling. In fact I thought long and hard about posting at all, because of concerns that the virtue signallers others would pile in to say 'Oh, next she's going to spout on about PC gorn mad, she must be a secret Ukipper!' and that would be it, MN ostracism.

I don't think I'm 'willy-waving' my virtues. Or if I'm mistaken and am in fact doing so, what is the moral stance I am supposedly making a performance of?

OP posts:
HomeHelpMeGawd · 09/09/2015 13:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

squoosh · 09/09/2015 13:59

That you're a superior being to those who go down the hating on 'DM/UKIP' route?

WeAllFloat · 09/09/2015 14:02

yanbu op. I had a good laugh at the threads about taking in refugees. Suddenly mumsnet is full of slopey shouldered 'oh I would..but' posts.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 09/09/2015 14:03

Yanbu, so true.

HomeHelpMeGawd · 09/09/2015 14:04

OTheHugeManatee, this is a rich mine you're seaming:
"I see virtue signalling as utterances which are ostensibly about a topic but whose actual or main function is a meta-communication about the virtue of the person speaking. The purpose of this post isn't to signal to you all that I have a particular moral stance, it's to discuss virtue signalling."
So you say. Why should I believe you? I'm sure those who post about how awful the DM is will say that the purpose of those posts is to say how awful the DM is. No-one openly says, even to themselves, "I'm signalling my virtue". For that very reason, every signal we send is capable of being interpreted as virtue-signalling - none of us can know what another person's intentions are, and often we don't even know what our own intentions are.

"In fact I thought long and hard about posting at all"
This statement, perhaps unintentionally, positively screams virtue-signalling. It says: "I'm a thoughtful person. I'm brave. I'm willing to risk the brickbats." You might not have meant it to, but it does!

HomeHelpMeGawd · 09/09/2015 14:04

"mine you're seaming"? Whoops! I meant "seam you're mining"!

JohnCusacksWife · 09/09/2015 14:08

But the purpose of the DM references in many posts are clearly NOT to discuss the DM itself. It's simply shorthand for "I'm a right on, left leaning person". That's what the OP is commenting on.

BoboChic · 09/09/2015 14:22

People "signal their virtue" (do their own PR) all the time.

Samcro · 09/09/2015 14:24

i am bored with the threads slagging of people on mn
You know where the door is

WeAllFloat · 09/09/2015 14:28

As do you, samcro. Why open a thread specifically about slagging of a mn phenomenon to be all thread police about it.

BlueJug · 09/09/2015 14:30

I sense that this isn't going to go very much further. It is interesting though.

I do feel that the internet world has made it easy to be seen to be caring whereas the cuture is actually to me more focussed on ourselves and what we are entiteld to. - But that is really a differnt point.

THanks OP for raising the issue - it made me think

BlueJug · 09/09/2015 14:31

"to be more focussed" sorry