To wonder why people care so much about refugees but not disabled people?

[elementofsurprise]

... I don't know where disabled refugees fit in...

... and why we can influence policy about refugees but not the cuts to disability benefits?

It just doesn't seem to add up. And, as a disabled person, it's frightening.

I suspect the government are happy to allow refugees in without bothering about providing for them, eg. house building, infrastructure, NHS and so on. From their POV it's just more competition for jobs, enabling further driving down of wages making their business chums happy, and increased demands on the NHS so they can say "it's not working" and have an excuse to privatise everything! Oh, and us disabled people are just lazy, look the refugees are (being exploited and) doing a 60hr week and happy to live ten to a room! Type thing.

In addition so many apparently left-wing people (usually men) seem to sacrifice one cause for another, eg. it's ok to laugh at/demonise/criticise uneducated or unintelligent people, or the unemployed, if it's in favour of immigrants/refugees. Or it suddenly doesn't matter about sexism if the sexist people are immigrants, in case it comes across as 'racist', whilst those people hold discrimatory views about half the population . Meanwhile every other 'ism' seems to trump the demonisation of the mentally ill, which is barely a cause, let alone with enough support to influnce policy so drastically!

The government are bastards imho, but it's the selective compassion of fellow left-wingers that is frightening and upsetting...

[To be clear on my position: I think we should help refugees but there needs to be some joined up-thinking past "let them in".]

The thing is though, it isn't necessary to gloss over the difficulties of people in this country already, to make a point about the desperation of the current refugee crisis, as some posters are.
It's all very well saying 'well we need immigrants for low wage unskilled jobs' if you aren't the one who can't find employment because of it. And I don't mean that in a taking our jobs way. The fact is that supply of (often very poor) immigrants to do unskilled work, has driven down pay and increased the amount of jobs offered as zero hours with shifts ranging any time. I can understand entirely why for some that and living overcrowded is an improvement on their home country. Pretty shit and often not feasible though if you have rent to pay with only one or two adults who may or may not get work that week. Especially if you need transport to the unskilled work, because when you moved in you were in the same job but fixed hours.
Likewise telling people to be grateful, and condemning them for worrying about further reduction in their quality of life, when it doesn't effect you isn't constructive either. I bet a lot (although far from all) of people with those thoughts would be less generous if they had reason to suspect they'd have to live below the poverty line in condemned/ unsuitable housing to accommodate the refugees.

I'm not saying suspicions are always correct, and personally I think with a big shake up of lots of things, there is enough wealth in this country that it isn't necessary to make one group go without to provide for another. However it is usually the lowest sector of society that bear the greatest burden, which is why you get resentment. I don't for a minute think that should in anyway effect how we think of the current crisis, just trying to explain why some people think differently. If I'm honest though if this country had been ran better, we'd be in a position to do a hell of a lot more with little effect. Instead we waste that wealth on pointless shit.

the trouble is the government won't change on this, they will keep targeting the most vulnerable. so disabled people and other vulnerable people will get hit harder. sad but true.
I think helping refugee's is a must. but would just love the more well off to pay for it.

Exactly samcro

Not sure why you are shoehorning the issue of disability into a debate about the issue of refugees - completely unrelated. You may as well say 'why does the government care about education but not disable people?', or 'why does the government care about regulating the banks but not disabled people?'

the thing is the government don't care about disabled people.

Same old same old "He took your biscuit" problem.

A banker*, a trades unionist and a disabled person are in a meeting, and there's a plate of 12 biscuits. The banker takes 11. The trades unionist has the last one.

The Daily Wail journalist attending the meeting points at the trades unionist and says to the disabled person, "He took your biscuit".

*choose occupations to suit

Not sure why you are shoehorning the issue of disability into a debate about the issue of refugees - completely unrelated.

It's related because both are instances of suffering, but for some reason there are outpourings of compassion and assistance regarding one issue but not the same for another. My issue isn't to do with refugees themselves, but with all the people now being compassionate to them (as well as the government bowing to that pressure) but who have ignored, and continue to ignore the plight of others suffering. (To those who have stated they care about both/have protested for both, that means I am not talking about you.) It's all a bit "deserving vs undeserving" poor really. Or something. I don't know, which is why I asked the question. And it comes in all sorts of forms - do you have any idea of the amount of discrimination people with MH issues face, from those who are apparently open-minded/caring in other respects? This is what makes it noticeable, the selective nature of thier compassion.

And there is also the element of ignoring one issue in favour of another. So people who would normally be outspoken against sexism, for example, are strangely silent on sexism if it involves immigrants. (As I mentioned, this is in relation to all types of immigration and I noticed this before the current refugee crisis). They won't even have the discussion, beyond "open borders for all" type thing. Personally I am all for open borders but there are so many wider issues that need to be sorted out for that to work. But addressing these isssues, discussing them even, doesn't seem to happen because just mentioning them means you're automatically branded a racist or as choc4ddict so kindly puts it "a little stirer".

It's like people want to hide behind placards (depending on the issue at hand they will happily drop one in favour of another) shouting at each other without actually sitting down and trying to work things out. (I've been at protests where members of the public say "Oh, but it's the immigrants..." at some point, and get immediately branded racist and shouted at... rather than the the much more satisfying and productive way of discussing what is bothering them, questioning why they think 'X' affects 'Y', dicussing the wider issues at play (practically always boils down to the few hoarding and controlling the resources), and the delicious moment when you see the penny drop...) And this attitude is particularly worrying/confusing when it involves mocking or ignoring people who are struggling, or uneducated, or whatever, in favour of the chosen group they are currently rooting for (even if the same people in a different debate would be sticking up for those people and not think it right to mock them for those attributes.)

It is also very strange that people think I only care about myself, when I am the one pointing out we should have compassion for and help a whole bunch of people, not just refugees. Or to use the "bedroom tax" example - people all up for protesting/campaigning about that, but little or no interest in the Housing Benefit changes happening at the same time affecting other poor and/or vulnerable people. Why?

Why the fuck do so many posters think I am saying we shouldn't help refugees? I have made it abundantly clear that is not what I think. FFS.

I am NOT saying "ooh he took my biscuit", I'm questioning people who DO seem to think only one group is deserving, and ignore the rest! And posters on here are doing just that, being all compassionate about refugees and dismissing concerns disabled people (and others) face.

I haven't seen any poster saying only one group is deserving.

Yep Rafa thats her situation exactly. She only ever got WTC through DLA.

Its scary and considering the furore around the Glasgow bin lorry crash where he covered up the fact he had blackouts and thats before disability benefits were cut imagine the higher risks ppl will be forced into taking now. Ppl with epilepsy arent allowed to drive but if they are forced to cover up their condition to secure a job or end up not being able to buy food or pay rent it is feasible that in some cases they could end up operating heavy machinery. After the bin lorry crash or any similar case they always trot out the "lessons will be learned" trope. Words are cheap.

Even the most destitute, vulnerable people in this country are better off just by living in this country! The two are not comparable.

erm, no. NOT better off. persecution (verbal, sometimes physical), disscrimination, treated like shit. Having to try and find a place to live peacefully without tbeing targeted all the time.

so which group am I talking about?

*MythicalKings Sun 06-Sep-15 08:18:06

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that this thread has left me less sympathetic towards some "disabled people" than I was.

Add message | Report | Message poster
Charis1 Sun 06-Sep-15 08:22:28

my feelings exactly mythicalkings*

. get off this thread, you uncaring unfeeling able bodied lot. Are you katy Hopkins and david Cameron btw?

I meant people with disabilities who moan about the help being given to the refugees. They lose my sympathy instantly at that point.

you uncaring unfeeling able bodied lot

That's a bit of a wild prejudiced assumption. how would you know whether we were disabled or not?

so many apparently left-wing people (usually men) seem to sacrifice one cause for another, eg. it's ok to laugh at/demonise/criticise uneducated or unintelligent people, or the unemployed, if it's in favour of immigrants/refugees

Deeply unpleasant, wrong, and also a bit sexist ('usually men'? Really?)

The whole point of being a 'lefty' for me is to want to to better the lot of EVERYONE who's vulnerable, be they disabled, homeless, male, female, refugee, British or anything else.

Btw, the government - with special mention going to Cameron, Osborne and IDS - don't differentiate or favour one cause over another either. They're really rather democratic like that. They just gleefully fuck everyone over (apart from their rich pals, of course).

What is your disability Charis if you dont mind me asking.

I don't mind you asking, but for privacy, I prefer not to answer. I have two.

Ok Fair enough.

As far as the biscuit analogy goes, I think this is also accurate for the uk.
12 biscuits, a left wing middle class professional, someone on the poverty line, a recent immigrant. Professional takes 11 biscuits, skint person takes one. Professional sees immigrant is hungry and tells the skint person to share his biscuit.

I have two disabilities as well, under the definition of "long-term incapacity or health condition."

My eyesight can be corrected by glasses and I've never wanted a job as an airline pilot, so it doesn't really affect my life.

Having to use a wheelchair (and the health problems causing that need), does impact my life severely. And is the disability for which I am (only just) eligible for some benefits.

But if I wanted to state I have two disabilities... yup, I can do that.

Oh i have oodles, do i win?

Now that's just greedy, iam.

Oh, and your post at 13:10 is spot on. Not in my name either.

This way of thinking is the oldest trap in "divide and rule". Make sure that everyone who is oppressed/disadvantaged spends so much time squabbling with and blaming one another that there is no chance of real change and no identification of where the problem really originates. It's only when people who are told they don't matter or are second rate (for being female, or a different ethnicity, or for being ill , or for having a disability, or for expressing their sexuality, or for being poor, or for having the wrong accent or background or any other reason people are told they don't matter ) realise that whent hey add all their voices together rather than keep clamouring to be heard individually that anything really starts to shift.

If you 'cared'...as in actively 'cared' about every group, every worthy cause, every group of vulnerable people, you'd go mad. It's just not possible.

People will protest or raise money or sign petitions for causes or people that strike a chord with them.

For me, if you really have to push to quantify it, then yes, I do feel 'more' sympathy for Syrian refugees than for the UK disabled population.

Think about those with the same disability(ies) as you, but having to avoid bombs, or worry about where their childrens clean water will come from at the same time.

If you want to turn it into a refugee vs UK disabled competition then in many peoples eyes you'd lose i'm afraid. But it's a ridiculous comparison to attempt in the first place anyway.