To wonder why people care so much about refugees but not disabled people?

[elementofsurprise]

... I don't know where disabled refugees fit in...

... and why we can influence policy about refugees but not the cuts to disability benefits?

It just doesn't seem to add up. And, as a disabled person, it's frightening.

I suspect the government are happy to allow refugees in without bothering about providing for them, eg. house building, infrastructure, NHS and so on. From their POV it's just more competition for jobs, enabling further driving down of wages making their business chums happy, and increased demands on the NHS so they can say "it's not working" and have an excuse to privatise everything! Oh, and us disabled people are just lazy, look the refugees are (being exploited and) doing a 60hr week and happy to live ten to a room! Type thing.

In addition so many apparently left-wing people (usually men) seem to sacrifice one cause for another, eg. it's ok to laugh at/demonise/criticise uneducated or unintelligent people, or the unemployed, if it's in favour of immigrants/refugees. Or it suddenly doesn't matter about sexism if the sexist people are immigrants, in case it comes across as 'racist', whilst those people hold discrimatory views about half the population . Meanwhile every other 'ism' seems to trump the demonisation of the mentally ill, which is barely a cause, let alone with enough support to influnce policy so drastically!

The government are bastards imho, but it's the selective compassion of fellow left-wingers that is frightening and upsetting...

[To be clear on my position: I think we should help refugees but there needs to be some joined up-thinking past "let them in".]

I hope I am concerned about anyone having a hard time but refugees take precedence for me at the moment because they are going through hell and young children are dying. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to live in a society that is more compassionate to people with disabilities or any other disadvantage.

"This shows why people like the op are fighting a losing battle"

Well this thread wasn't really a battle worth fighting in the first place.

It's left a pretty nasty taste in my mouth tbh.

What if I told you it was possible to care about both refugees AND disabled people AND elderly people AND animals?

At the moment though, refugees need our attention the most. They've been going years of being ignored, only to have it suddenly come to a realization to the rest of the world what an actual crisis it really is. It's sad that it took drowned children washed up on shore to get everyone to stop what they were doing to look, but the fact is, we can't keep ignoring this.

That doesn't take away from the fact disabled people need help. If you're in triage, you attend to the person that's hemorrhaging before attending to the person with a broken arm. Both need help, one needs help and attention more at the moment.

Is it a misery competition then?

If it is are you really comparing disabled people in a wealthy, relatively country to refugees fleeing a place where their homes have been bombed, where they have no food, no water, no electricity and where total crazy fuckers are going around mutilating men, women and children in the street?

Okay then, you lose.

there can be no progress if we look upon another's suffering and withhold our hand in favour of stopping to tabulate all the ways we are personally wronged in this world.

Relatively safe I mean

Yes op you have a very very valid point. Yes we probably have the room, but we are not rich country, the government are cutting back on benefits to the vulnerable in the UK, people are having to use food banks, yes this will further deepen the problem. The refugee crisis is huge, how long is a piece of string. If we agree to a certain number, then others will suffer, we cannot provid fir them all. How many of these refugees are fleeing persecution, and how many are in fact economic migrants seeking a better life!

Even the most destitute, vulnerable people in this country are better off just by living in this country! The two are not comparable.

Yes they will be hit even harder if we take more than we can manage.

This is a Global problem, not just a European one. Australia, America, Japan and others should all help.

Yes, it's a global problem, Aeroflot, which is why Europe are dealing with only a very small percentage (a single figure percentage) of the refugees. Many more countries have done a lot more than the majority of countries in Europe.

We aren't anywhere close to taking more than we can manage at this point.

How come we are not hearing about these other countries and Saudi Arabia are taking. They are bigger countries than we are.

Erm... Yet again I am not saying we houldn't help refugees, or that it is a "misery competition". I am questionng the huge response re. refugees and why the same people dont care about the terrible things happening to people, especilly the disabled and especially the mentally ill. What is going on in these people's minds? Why do they have a weird top trumps system of values?

Because the British media are understandably British and Euro-centric. Millions of Syrians being displaced into non-European countries isn't particularly newsworthy. 300,000 or so in Europe apparently is.

Thanks for the responses from those who actually read and understood my OP.

Those who automatically leap to the conclusion I dont want to help refugees, despite explicitly stating the opposite, are kind of proving my point. A whiff of the "top" issue in your minds and you assume I'm against your viewpoint, and lay into me. Completely ignoring any other suffering than your current focus - disabled and ill people are dying because of the cuts - why not the same outpouring of compassion?

To those who care about both and have provided some insight into why others seem to ignore certain issues, thank you.

Charis I think you answer your own question here . You are trying to compare refugees with nothing, to disabled people WHO HAVE BENEFITS but will be getting LESS BENEFITS - not NO benefits.

You are saying someone who has nothing what so ever is comparable to someone who is living on benefits, but might be given less for free now than they have been used to.

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. They haven't cut the amount, in most cases, they have changed the goalposts so less people qualify. It's very all-or-nothing now.

FairyCaravan "But I have noticed, especially irl and as mentioned especially amongst lefty men a weird hierarchy of 'causes worth bothering about'"

Really? hmm You do realise that the disabled, well every vulnerable group, were better looked after when we had a Government made up mostly of 'lefty men'? It's since we've had public school, rich, right wing men in charge that we've been shat on!

This is what I don't understand! The people who I supposedly am politically aligned with seem to have certain issues they get all worked up about bit ignore others! It worries me because I'm thinking, shit, you're supposed to be the people who care!

I'm so confused...hasn't there been loads of social action that concerns disabled people recently? E.g. the students in Bristol fighting DWP decisions and the UN investigations into those same decisions/Human Rights violations? Like many people I care about both issues and managed to do something about each one yesterday (the tiniest amount to help. ..but it makes me feel better)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11846683/Britain-should-help-crush-Isil-in-Syria-former-Archbishop-of-Canterbury-warns.html

Next media article warming us up for military action

Again, you wonder why suddenly our views can change policy when they didnt over disabled people in the uk. It is not to do with the effectiveness of the campaign or the number of voices. It is because it is being used to shape public opinion about military intervention in syria

I will say it
cameron can't shut this debate down(even though he did use the I am a father the other day)
he shuts down any debate about disability or carers down.

The establishment could easily shut this debate down if they wanted to. Syrians have been dying for years. Noone seems to give a shit about the other refugees from eg eritrea. Why not? Because there is no agenda to invade/bomb

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. They haven't cut the amount, in most cases, they have changed the goalposts so less people qualify. It's very all-or-nothing now.

all or nothing for ONE BENEFIT, no limit to how many others you claim......

( and would disagree about the all or nothing anyway)

Charis1 a friend of mine has epilepsy She currently gets DLA ...this also qualifies her for working tax credits The new criteria for PIP is two fits a DAY. She wont qualify She currently works part time and has started looking for a new job. Because when she does lose DLA she will also lose the working tax credits that she gets because of it. She has tried to increase her hours at work but they wont. She will be looking for full time work but the more time she spends at work the more likely it will be that she quite likely will have a fit at work. She may have to be a bit economical with the truth with her next interview because a lot of employers wont employ someone with epilepsy and as her fits are not as often as twice a day she WONT get PIP. So for her its work more hours and hope she doesnt fit at work or no money....in wages OR tax credits OR disability benefits.

So you see SHE will be losing more than one benefit.

And i believe we SHOULD help the refugees. my mum isnt British and came to the UK in the very early 1960s.

Charis all or nothing for ONE BENEFIT, no limit to how many others you claim......

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If someone is too unwell to work or meet the conditions for JSA, or to appeal a fit-for-work decision, but is denied ESA they will have no income for basics. They could continue to claim housing benefit/council tax support but would have no way of making up rent shortfalls or their contribution to council tax (20% round here, differs by area.) Furthermore - and particularly for those with mental health problems - cuts to housing benefit mean under 35's are expected to houseshare and charities have warned how difficult this can be when attempting to help people remain housed. It is frighteningly easy in this position to end up homeless and penniless; I know from firsthand experience.

And that's before we get to sanctions even if you are able to get ESA (work-related activity group can be forced to do 'work experince' aka 'work' for 30hrs a week, with no time limit (JSA is six months I think) and sanction if you can't do it) or JSA... On JSA you can be santioned for up to three years, and we know the jobcentre have targets for this!

Also, a failed ESA assessment triggers an end to PIP, if the person is claiming that. So they can go from having money to live on, rent on a flat paid by HB, and PIP to pay for extra disability related costs (in my case I have to pay for treatment because the NHS couldn't follow through after the cuts; social care has also been cut round here because the council took such a severe hit too)... and then have no income for food, prescriptions, electric - basics - whilst having to move to an unsuitable property that actually they won't last long in without being able to pay the bills, meanwhile getting iller/not managing because they cannot afford to pay for anything. Or, you know, just killing themselves because MH has take an understandable turn for the worse and their previous support services don't exist any more.

Not sure what other unlimited benefits there are?

See what I mean about "all or nothing"? I am at present lucky (or unlucky?) enough to be in the 'all' part of that equation at the moment, and I am spending it wisely on getting treatment (at long last), and putting some aside each month so there is a cushion when I move over to the 'nothing' side. (Plus due to nature of disability it is not easy to pay for care at the right times and some is provided by friends, as well as living in a convenient location; someone with a different disability/care arrangements would be struggling to make the money stretch). I just hope I can make it last and get back to wok in time. Digs about "free money" are not nice; believe me I'd give anything not to have the MH issues and past experiences that I have.

I think the problem is people with no compassion for anyone (or anyone bar a few immediate friends and family).

Not the people capable of acting on feelings of sympathy and empathy for their fellow man, whatever direction in which that compassion is directed.