to think that I could take a van to Calais?

[NotTodaySatan]

I've spent the morning with a local grassroots organisation packing up two vans that are now en route to Calais.

It doesn't feel like I'm doing enough. As the colder weather approaches the living conditions of these 4,000 people are going to get worse and worse.

Ideally I'd like to help the children already in Greece (and have donated to charities helping them) but it's not feasible to drive there.

I was going to to speak to the Head of my DD's school at pick up today and ask if I can establish a donation point at school. I would also set up a FB page to raise awareness and approach local papers/radio to try and get a mention. I would also, of course, pester local MNers for anything they could donate .

Have already checked and the van hire would be pretty affordable. I've been driving for 17 years without so much as a bump so am confident on that front.

Am I BU and/or insane?

The way language is used is very important. MsJamieFraser is I think technically correct. Until a person actually formally claims asylum they are technically an illegal immigrant.

However in the context of what is happening at the moment it is very unwise to use terms like migrant or illegal immigrant as our government and our media have twisted these terms away from their original (without judgement) meaning to a meaning laden with negative judgements.

They are simply people whose lives are for whatever reason so poor that they are willing to risk their and their and their families lives - have a think - how much would it take for you to uproot yourself/your family in this way?

What on earth makes you think they won't have passports?

MrsJamieFrazer you cannot claim asylum in the UK from another country, therefore you have to have entered the UK to make an application. Talk of legal and illegal entry is irrelevant under the British system.

See Asylum Aid guidance

And the Government's guidance.

They may have a passport, but I imagine it is unlikely they have the correct permissions to live/working the UK.

They may have a passport, but I imagine it is unlikely they have the correct permissions to live/working the UK.

I doubt they have passports, because having one would be evidence of nationality and it would be easier to deport them back to their country of origin, rather than just being returned to Calais.

Don't worry about their legal status: the 1951 Convention on Refugees recognises that people fleeing persecution may have to use irregular means in order to escape and claim asylum in another country and so guarantees everybody the right to apply for asylum. So the fact that they might not be able to claim asylum 1.2 seconds after they arrive doesn't make them 'illegal' under international law.

I'd say the numbers at Calais are much smaller than the numbers arriving in Greece and Italy

Less than 1% of the total that has arrived in Europe. It suits the red tops to perpetuate the idea there are floods of economic migrants knocking at the gates rather than just a few thousand and people just believe what they are told which perpetuates the idea even more...

"They may have a passport, but I imagine it is unlikely they have the correct permissions to live/working the UK."

Then if that's the case, their application will be turned down won't it? Until that time, they have the right to apply. Get it?

Right to apply in the UK if they can get in of course... whole new other thread that...!

Urgh. There are some comments on this thread that make me not want to be living on this planet any more.

Claiming benefits in the UK is unbelievably difficult in the first place, for anything even if you are entitled. Secondly, they are not at all generous. The UK gives out some of the lowest payments in western Europe. So please desist from prattling about people coming here because it's such a gold mine of government benevolence.

Tbh when I was talking about claiming asylum/refugee status, I was not thinking of them coming to the Uk, it was just my general understand as a whole, not just to a specific country.

As I say, I have no understanding on this subject as it seems, so for me this is educational.

In all honestly this has not been a subject close to me, its only been because of the widespread media that it has hit home, I pay no attention at all to those saying vile things, mostly I read it in the media etc... because I don't know anyone in RL who say anything vile about people who come/want to come into out country.

bradagocia

Thank you, for the links, and thank you for educating me rather than shaming me

Nice virtue signalling OP. Here have some internet moral exhibitionism points

By all means be compassionate, but all the public hand-wringing only exacerbates the problem. Europe, and its deluded citzenry, are holding out a carrot and tempting hundreds and thousands of people to the deaths as they try to get here for "a better life".

If the policy was rescue and return there would be no dead children washing up on beaches and the human tide of misery would stop overnight.

An open letter to anyone who ever talked down the refugee crisis

Yes that's right, it's public hand-wringing and the carrot of a possible £36.95 a week that's the cause of all this, not anything like a civil war or anything

the human tide of misery would stop overnight.

Er no. It'd be less visible.

Most of the EU borders aren't checked and technically once you've got into one, you can pass through to others. Most EU citizens have photo ID cards which act as passports within the Schengen area, though they are not checked at borders between Schengen countries. I live on the French/German border and there are no checks at all. Very occasionally when there is a security risk but it's rare. The UK is not part of Schengen so it has border checks.

Grunt, if your going to post such a thing, could you please put a warning on the link! I'd done my best to not see those images, a warning should have been given.

Those images really bring it close to us, don't they?
Instead of some virtual entities that are having a spot of trouble in the Mediterranean.
Actually, I think all those oppose closing borders and sending refugees back should be made to look at those photos.

Countless men, women, children and babies have been dying for a hell of a long time, (hell being the operative word) in the most horrific ways, exploited by criminal gangs and suffering the most harrowing, dangerous journeys, and this was well-known. Suddenly, a photograph of one of those countless, previously faceless, children has seemingly made a lot of people around the world, finally realise the tragedy of what is going on and want to do something about it.
Ordinary people do want to help if they can. For example, More than 11,000 families in Iceland have offered to open their homes to Syrian refugees in a bid to raise the government’s cap of just 50 asylum seekers a year. story here

At least sign the Government petition, petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991 if you haven't already done so and if you can't afford to donate to any of the charities helping the refugees.

I think most people don't read newspapers.
I've been watching this crises build for years.
The Syrians have been attacking their own for four years at least and it is deeply concerning.
So it's strange that yes, a photo of a toddler on a beach, suddenly everyone is posting about crying and cuddling their children and wanting to donate old clothes.
And any one who wants to deeply discuss these complicated times is accused of being a racist.
It's frightening, but loading a van full of old clothes or clicking an online petition doesn't help.
I think that actually, we need our leaders to lead us.
We need a thoughtful considered approach, but we aren't getting it.

It is sad that one photo may change perceptions this much. But it has been largely ignored by the public and put at the back of their minds.
Whatever can help people humanise these anonymous and "undesirable" "migrants" can only be good.

OP - there are charities who will be much more efficient at making sure they have the right aid, donating the money you'd spend on van hire and share the details of the charities as much as possible on FB etc would be a better use of your time.

I would also say that sadly, the 'need' is greater for charities working in Greece and Turkey than Calais, there are local French charities - the French authorities can manage the situation - in Greece, the islands of Kos and Lesbos particularly are really struggling with the sheer numbers arriving - the local facilities are being overwelmed and there wasn't organised camps set up already. There's going to be issues with sanitation soon, with a large number of people already physically weakened by their journeys and lack of food, it's a potential health disaster.

On the BBC news tonight they mentioned that the UK is providing the most aid out of the EU countries for a huge tented city for refugees.

The overall aid budget for Syria is €900 million.

With the best will in the world - how long is that sustainable for? Where are countries going to find this extra cash requirement from? I'm guessing it'll come down to either raising taxes or lowering social benefits....

Although it could be a good excuse to drop the bedroom tax - for those families willing to take refugees into their homes. That'd help with faster integration into UK society and save money for our own needy people.