to think that I could take a van to Calais?

[NotTodaySatan]

I've spent the morning with a local grassroots organisation packing up two vans that are now en route to Calais.

It doesn't feel like I'm doing enough. As the colder weather approaches the living conditions of these 4,000 people are going to get worse and worse.

Ideally I'd like to help the children already in Greece (and have donated to charities helping them) but it's not feasible to drive there.

I was going to to speak to the Head of my DD's school at pick up today and ask if I can establish a donation point at school. I would also set up a FB page to raise awareness and approach local papers/radio to try and get a mention. I would also, of course, pester local MNers for anything they could donate .

Have already checked and the van hire would be pretty affordable. I've been driving for 17 years without so much as a bump so am confident on that front.

Am I BU and/or insane?

The sooner we get rid of that "first safe country" excuse for the likes of people like Reality, the better. Far too many people are using it as an excuse for inhumanity, and it simply isn't relevant to modern conditions.

Yeah your knowledge is limited, MrsJamieFraser and your terminology is offensive and inaccurate.

And agree with Jeeves and Lweji on the hatefulness masquerading under the first safe country rhetoric of the likes of Reality.

Sorry what's offensive to say someone is an illegal immigrant? I have not used it in an offensive or derogatory way. I have not even posted to say Anything offensive.

I've clearly said and it's apparently evident my knowledge is limited. But instead of berating or trying to make someone feel bad I don't why not educate them instead of shallow name calling!

Yes my understanding is limited, I've already said this.

and your terminology is offensive and inaccurate.

Hang on, isn't she talking about people who are regularly trying to break through fences & into lorries to illegally enter the country?

Not sure what's "offensive" about that.

If these people were trying to enter the country via the legal process they wouldn't be in Calais, they could do it from anywhere....

Why not give your supplies to the homeless and hungry in the UK? There are thousands of rough sleepers here in need.

Migrants don't want to stay in France because you can have a much nicer life on benefits in the UK.

YANBU.

Week before last I was on a coach that drove past the migrant camp in Calais. There is a large Red Cross tent there that presumably hand out supplies. So I would say collect donations by all means but maybe better to check if there is someone else co-ordinating the distribution rather than just rocking up unannounced with a van full of stuff.

YABU, not in you intention, but in how you are going about it (ie individual van load).

The organisations on the ground are appealing for specific donations, not for people to turn up with stuff. It will tend to divert their effort into dealing with it, rather than keeping it in mananging the established aid supply lines as effectively as possible.

Could you instead contact one or more of the organisations which has its logistics in place, and place your donations into their system?

Why not give your supplies to the homeless and hungry in the UK? There are thousands of rough sleepers here in need

Indeed. Many of them products of childhood abuse the care system and broken childhoods.

But they dont get the same press do they. Just like all the children dying at parents hands, its only when little Baby P comes along does anyone care.

Migrants don't want to stay in France because you can have a much nicer life on benefits in the UK.

The benefits for migrants in France are actually better than the UK, certainly during the waiting period for status.

Stop reading the Daily Mail

In going to start another thread on this as don't want to de-rail it.

Good luck with it OP.

Benefits are actually substantially more in Germany and Sweden. But I don't see people massing at the French/Germsny border trying to get into Germany which lets face it would be a lot easier to get into and they'd have more money when they're there.

I think it must be to do with being able to speak some English and thinking they would have more chance of finding work, etc here.

If they just wanted to sit in the dole they'd go to Germany.

MsJamieFraser if it doesn't matter to you what these poor people are called, then why are you insisting on calling them illegal immigrants? You now nothing about their status. Implying that they have done something wrong is just sick.

And try to effect some change here

Migrants don't want to stay in France because you can have a much nicer life on benefits in the UK.

Wrong.

Asylum seekers in the UK get £36.95 a week in benefits. In France they get £56.82. Also rentals that are available to asylum seekers are up to 25% more expensive in the UK. So I suggest instead of reading the DM and quoting whatever nonsense of the day they're spouting you go and actually read some facts. Most of them speak English as their second language and hope to come to the UK to be able to gain employment and support themselves. Many also have relatives in the UK so it makes sense that they come here where they have a ready made support network and will actually be less reliant on the state.

This has interesting comparisons between France and the UK:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33268521

There's a sense of colonialist chickens coming home to roost in all this. That is somehow never acknowledged when people fulminate against "illegal immigrants" coming to Britain to "take our benefits" etc etc.

Indeed - whim destabilised all these regions in the first place...

Whim=who

It's also important to note that this idea that there are rules about 'claiming asylum in the first European country you arrive at' is bollocks:

"There is nothing in international law to say that refugees must claim asylum in the first country they reach."

www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/policy_research/the_truth_about_asylum/facts_about_asylum_-_page_4

In addition that page states that:

"under international law, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in any country that has signed the 1951 Convention and to remain there until the authorities have assessed their claim."

so the idea they they are "illegal" in any sense is crap as well.

Good luck to you OP.

I was going to start another thread but then it's a thread about a thread and as this one has somewhat de-railed already can someone please tell me where I have been inaccurate and offensive?

I've done a quick google... And it says what I have wrote. I'm confused and want to be educated on this subject.

Why is it offensive to call someone at Calais an illegal immigrant who are waiting for days/weeks to seek asylum/refugee?

Because to me they are seeking either asylum or refugee status... So they have entered the country illegally to try and get this status? Is this incorrect.

It's a genuine request, I thinknota wrong to tel someone they have been offensive and inaccurate even when they have said their knowledge is limited but yet provide no more further info to say this is why I think you are these choice of words!?

There you go MsJamieFrazer, I've just explained it to you. You're welcome.

x posts. I get the illegal part now.

However I thought you needed a passport of your own to get to country to country? So if you haven't for a passport to get to county to county then that would be illegal surely?

Subject has me well bamboozled.