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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

ABU to expect work to actually do something constructive about PITA colleague?

66 replies

Songofsixpence · 23/08/2015 09:03

Instead of constantly saying "well, you know what he's like"

He's due to retire early next year so they seem to be reluctant to discipline him as "well he won't be here much longer anyway"

Don't want to out myself so don't want to give too many examples, but he's a complete busy body and constantly interferes with things that are nothing to do with him, continually manages to offend other staff, suppliers, etc

He sets stupid tests for people to try and catch them out - last month he changed a load of figures on a spreadsheet that I had done, which could have cost the company a lot of money if I hadn't noticed. We knew full well it was him as our computer system logs which users have accessed/changed stuff.

He's constantly pulling stunts like this, but all we ever get is "oh, you know what he's like, there's no harm done". No, there's no harm done so far but only because the rest of us sort this shit out.

I'm supposed to have a week off next week, but I now have to go in for a couple of hours for a meeting tomorrow morning to sort out something that happened on Friday, due to him interfering yet again.

I'm sick of picking up the pieces behind him. I had to do some serious damage limitation a couple of weeks ago after he offended an important supplier, and tomorrow is going to be a nightmare and could have serious implications if we don't get it sorted.

We have disciplinary procedures, I just want them to bloody follow them

OP posts:
DoreenLethal · 23/08/2015 09:06

Can you password protect your stuff so that he can't access it?

Original poster
Songofsixpence · 23/08/2015 09:20

Some stuff can be protected

We have swipe cards which we have to use to access our computers and it depends on the level of clearance on the card as to what you can access, so some of my stuff he can't get into, but the figures he changed were on our company-wide database system. But, he got caught out due to the fact he was logged in on his own swipe card and the system logged the changes he made, if that makes sense.

Undeniable proof, but they still wrung their hands and "you know what he's like"

Maybe in future I'll not notice stuff like this and let him cost them £50k

OP posts:
frenchcheeses · 23/08/2015 09:22

Can you raise a grievance against him if he's directly affecting your work negatively?

DoreenLethal · 23/08/2015 09:24

The only thing you need to discuss at that meeting is why are the management ignoring this person who sabotages people's work...putting the company in a potential situation of making a loss.

StealthPolarBear · 23/08/2015 09:24

I think you need to raise a grievance. The stuff he's doing is clearly disciplinary worthy, what on earth is his line manager thinking?
Have you involved your own manager or his?

ilovesooty · 23/08/2015 09:24

Your managers are a spineless lot who need to start managing.
I'd suggest a grievance too.

bringthenoise · 23/08/2015 09:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MilesHuntsWig · 23/08/2015 09:26

Grievance. This is pure laziness on their behalf.

redexpat · 23/08/2015 09:26

I wouldnt go into the meeting. You are on holiday. You are unavailable for work.

Also by going into help, you are enabling the situation to continue. Make it their problem to sort out. Only then will anything happen.

treaclesoda · 23/08/2015 09:26

If they are as useless as this at tackling him, I'd be tempted to let him lose the company some money, or a client, instead of stepping in and fixing things. That will soon focus their minds.

bringthenoise · 23/08/2015 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EBearhug · 23/08/2015 09:32

I would have said, it's leaving in a few months, so jyst luve with it. But he's actually deliberately sabotaging stuff? That's a bit more than just being incompetent and annoying.

I wouldn't go into work w

Original poster
Songofsixpence · 23/08/2015 09:36

Several of us have complained officially to HR, but they seem reluctant to actually do anything official. I think they're scared he may try and sue them or something and just want to wait it out until he leaves.

He's got away with so much that he now seems to think he's invincible and it's getting worse.

We manage different teams but share a manager. He caused a load of uproar and upset within my team on Friday afternoon, so I now have to go in tomorrow morning and try and sort it out before they all down tools.

He doesn't like the way I manage my team basically, he doesn't like the fact that I'll happily shove the broom round the workshop floor, and buy my round on cake Friday and stuff like that. It's all kicked off because my team were happy to do some overtime and his team point blank refused so he had to interfere

OP posts:
EBearhug · 23/08/2015 09:37

I wouldn't go into work when I'm on leave. I would compile a list of the things he has done and what it would cost the company if it hadn't been sorted out - plus if possible, a rough idea of the effort involved to sort each incident - i.e. it's already costing them, and if it takes 2 staff 3 hours to rectify it, that's 6 hours where normal work isn't being done.

And like everyone says, grievance.

DoreenLethal · 23/08/2015 09:38

Kicking off is one thing. Sabotage and changing your figures is another.

There should be no need for a grievance - your manager needs to take some management action. And I'd lock down everything in your capability esp whilst you are on leave.

HicDraconis · 23/08/2015 09:39

YABU to expect them to do anything when currently they don't need to - after all, you're picking up the pieces, saving them from the lost clients and income, repairing his interfering...

Stop. Do your job, don't do his. Let them lose money, let them lose clients, let them see that his interfering is costing them more than having to placate you long enough for you to keep cleaning up after him.

I doubt they'll discipline him, but I imagine they may speed the retirement process. I wouldn't go in on your week off either.

TiredButFineODFOJ · 23/08/2015 10:04

I'm going to guess that you don't have to go in on Monday but your life will be much easier if you do, I've been there.
Clearly management don't want to deal with him. A few options you have - I'm not recommending you do these unless you really feel up to it and it suits your circumstances, these really are the best if a bad bunch-

  1. Raise a complaint that he is bullying and harassing you
  2. Sabotage his figues, then if you get in trouble act daft and say he tests you so you were testing him, you thought that was the practise now? Then if you get in shit for it, raise a bullying complaint against management
  3. Get suppliers to complain about him and threaten that unless he is removed they won't work with you - this can easily backfire if you force the supplier sto say it rather than it being their actual point of view
  4. Complain to the top top brass- owner/board
These are all pretty serious and will likely bring trouble to you also
Original poster
Songofsixpence · 23/08/2015 10:11

I know, I should stop sorting his mess out, but half the time his little stunts affect my team so I feel obligated to deal with it.

For example, the supplier he offended meant they refused to supply something that only my team use.

Him changing the figures mean that we'd have massively over ordered something that only my team use, which would have been a nightmare to sort out and he wouldn't have helped

He does it to all the other managers on our level too

He doesn't shit on his own doorstep

Our manager knows full well what's going on but turns a blind eye, knowing that we'll sort it out as we don't want our staff negatively affected.

He's a crap manager himself. He has no relationship with his own team, spends all his time in the office and rarely sets foot in the workshop. The rest of us work with our teams, none of us are above sweeping the floor or getting a tea round in and we turn a blind eye to the occasional fag break. We've got a bit of give and take. We exceed our targets and they'll do a bit of overtime if I ask. His team hate him and work to rule.

I will go in tomorrow as he's lied about something, and some of my team could end up with disciplinaries themselves so I feel like I have to go in as their manager

I feel a bit like my hands are tied.

I'll give ACAS a call when I go back though

OP posts:
Original poster
Songofsixpence · 23/08/2015 10:14

I'm going to guess that you don't have to go in on Monday but your life will be much easier if you do, I've been there.

Sorry, xposted, but yes. Pretty much.

I dread to think what I'd go back to next Monday if I don't at least try and sort it out tomorrow.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 23/08/2015 10:14

This is affecting your team. These are people like yourself presumably with mortgages to pay and families to feed. You must take action. Log everything and raise a formal grievance.

Original poster
Songofsixpence · 23/08/2015 10:40

Yes, everything has been logged and reported, and we've all been to HR officially several times.

When he changed the figures, he was spoken to, but no official disciplinary or anything like that.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 23/08/2015 10:43

Ah sorry I didn't realise this was all official.
That is incredibly shit of them

Nanny0gg · 23/08/2015 11:12

Can you and your other manager colleagues arrange a meeting with HR and your seniors/directors collectively and raise a grievance? Pointing out exactly the damage he is doing to the company?

Surely they couldn't ignore that? And that if he carries on the company may find themselves being sued for constructive dismissal if an employee loses their job over one of his actions?

OutToGetYou · 23/08/2015 11:33

I think you need to be firmer with both HR and your manager and raise this as a formal written grievance.

He might not retire you know....he doesn't have to. I have known plenty of people who go on and on about retiring and never do. I work with someone who keeps telling me she's been meaning to retire for over 10 years.

Not disciplining him simply because he 'is due to retire' is age discrimination against those they DO discipline who are not going to retire - i.e. your team. Try pointing that out to them!

BeaufortBelle · 23/08/2015 11:52

I'd handle it differently. He's probably got long service and an unblemished record because no-one has dealt with him. There may be stuff you don't know and HR can't tell you. He may have underlying MH problems.

He's near retirement and dismissal now could have a huge impact on his pension. He could claim he was going to work for another five years as there is no statutory retirement age any more. He can only retire if he resigns first.

So, from HR's perspective there are significant potential risks here if disciplinary goes wrong. Age and disability discrimination for starters again an unblemished record.

If I were you I'd simply document a factual note for your manager. It is your manager's decision to take this further. You would not necessarily know if action was taken as a result because it would be confidential. You also don't know what has happened previously and nor should you.

I would advise his manager to put him on capability and monitor closely because there is no guarantee he will actually retire. If appropriate the procedure can always veer into disciplinary if facts emerge to support it. Much safer than just going straight to disciplinary in the circumstances - if the disc isn't uoheld he can't then claim it was just a quick fix to get rid of him.

Document the facts, meet with your manager and discuss what can be done for the good of the organisation. You catch more flies with jam than vinegar. There may be much more going on than you are aware of.

If your HR haven't referred you to your manager they need a kick up the bum.