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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Scottish vs English primary school- Aibu?

71 replies

susannahmoodie · 20/08/2015 22:26

My ds1 is 5 in January and is starting in reception in September. We live in the north of England. I have a friend from uni who is English but lives in Edinburgh. Her Ds1 is a month older than mine. I met up with her the other day and I started talking about my ds going to school- she said that she couldn't believe I was sending him as he was far too young, that they will be deferring her ds's start so that he will not start until he is nearly 6, and was generally very sniffy about the fact that my ds would be starting at 'such a young age'. Now, I understand that the Scottish system allows children who will be young for the year to defer. Even though my ds is younger than hers, as a winter baby he will be far from the youngest in his year group, whereas I understand the Scottish cut off is feb/March, so her ds will be amongst the youngest. But even so, I don't have the option of deferring and even if I did, I wouldn't as I think he is more than ready for school. She kept going on about how cruel it was to make kids 'sit down and do sums', but having looked around my ds's school I know that it won't be like that at all- it is very much a "learning though play set up", with free flow indoor/outdoor and lots of 'forest school' activities which my ds will love.

I also don't really get the point about being the youngest in the year- surely they have to have a cut off somewhere? I know there is some evidence that summer borns (in England) are disadvantaged but Someone has to be the youngest? I have another Scottish friend with a feb bday who didn't defer and so when we started uni she was only 17.5 and she said it was great as she felt she had a 'year in hand' over other people so could take a gap year etc whereas I as a winter baby felt pressure to get on with things (my mum used to say I'd had my gap year when I was 4!).

I'm not saying the English system is ideal, far from it, but Aibu to think my friend was rude to question my son starting school?

OP posts:

Haggisfish · 20/08/2015 22:28

Yanbu. Dd was only just four when she started in England and she lived it. It's not sums-it's so play based.

Passmethecrisps · 20/08/2015 22:29

I started school at 4.5 in scotland. Almost no one I know defers. Some must obviously but it is very unusual.

As you say, someone has to be youngest.

Both systems have their pros and cons.

Roseformeplease · 20/08/2015 22:32

I think the date for starting school is the least of her problems, given the mess that the SNP have made of Scottish education. Really. You are lucky that education, and not ideological campaigns have been the focus of government policy in England for more than 15 years. Yes, there is lots of testing in England to check progress but, in Scotland we have.......NONE until S4 (approx GCSE year equivalent). Some schools offer 6 subjects, others 8. In my own school in one key subject there were NO passes and yet nothing is done about a department that has been failing for years. There is appalling inequality.

Tell your friend that you are sure that an extra year at home will be adequate preparation for the total fuck up that is the new Curriculum for Excellence in Scotland. And then send your wee boy off to make friends and play in the sandpit with them.

tabulahrasa · 20/08/2015 22:32

I think it was really rude to go on at you, but you've also got to remember that Scotland doesn't have reception either, so it does seem really young to people on Scotland even without deferring.

LindyHemming · 20/08/2015 22:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Theycallmemellowjello · 20/08/2015 22:33

YANBU - not sure what is wrong with sums anyway? It's not going to be a Victorian schoolhouse! Obviously there is also a lot of play. It's well documented that young children from deprived backgrounds do far better in a structured environment such as nursery, pre-school or school, and young children from non-deprived backgrounds do more or less whether they're at home or in nursery/school. I was a June baby and went to school at 4 - I did well in school, university and life in general. I will have no qualms about sending my DS to school at that age.

Hamiltoes · 20/08/2015 22:34

Hmm, Scottish system here and I'd always defer if after Xmas. I don't really see the benefit in sending them the year early? Also, who wants to be 17 at uni when everyone is out enjoying freshers week and you can't go?!

In my ignorance though I didn't actually realise that the English system differed? So technically speaking an april 5th birthday could go to school now? (Our schools have already started back). When is the cut off in England?

Original poster

susannahmoodie · 20/08/2015 22:37

The cut off is August/sept. So a child with a bday of August 31st could be 4y1d when they start. My ds2 is an early sept birthday so he will be 5 the week he starts.

OP posts:

ASAS · 20/08/2015 22:43

What Rose said.

trixymalixy · 20/08/2015 22:44

Yanbu, she was rude. I say that as someone who deferred my son so he was 5.5 when he started school.

I have to disagree with a PP though, I know loads of people who have deferred entry to school, most who have the opportunity do IME.

trixymalixy · 20/08/2015 22:45

And what Rose said.

Hamiltoes · 20/08/2015 22:46

Oh really? So my early September baby could have started last year! What a strange thought, she seems so young as she's not quite 5 yet next to others in her class.

Don't the europeans start at 6 and basically surpass us within the first year or two? I do think 4 is awfully young to make the jump from a playgroup or 15hr/ week nursery setting into school , maybe because I was 5.5 when I started.

ShadowLine · 20/08/2015 22:49

YANBU.

My summer born DS1 will be starting reception this September at barely 4 yrs old. I have concerns about whether he's mature enough to settle well.

But - at least in the part of England I live in - keeping children back a year is, at the minute, something the LEA don't let parents do easily. You have to have exceptional reasons for your child to be kept back a year before they'll agree, and concerns about a child being "such a young age" don't count as exceptional. (although recent news reports have suggested that it may be about to get easier to keep children back a year)

So I'd find it very annoying to have a Scottish friend criticise me for sending my child to school at 4 years old when I've got very little real choice in the matter.

SliceOfLime · 20/08/2015 22:51

Your friend was a bit rude, everyone has to make the decision that feels right to them... However some people feel the need to tell everyone that THEIR decision is THE ONLY right decision... I'm in the process of trying to defer my just-turned-4 DD's reception place to next September. Yes, someone has to be the youngest, but then some kids will be ready for school at just 4, and some won't. I just wish it was easier to get the place deferred if you want to.

Hamiltoes · 20/08/2015 22:56

Hang on though, all the 4 year olds +1 day won't they be 15+1 day when they finish? Or does England essentially have an extra year so everyone is over 16?

Here we have a strange system in that if you started school at 4 you have to stay for an extra term, so you'd be a december leaver after your 16th birthday. Always felt really sorry for anyone born after the summer as we were all off to college or getting apprenticeships and they were basically forced into doing half a higher until the xmas, with much less oppertunity at that time of year.

Its probably another reason most people I know choose to defer, they're on more of an equal footing with everyone at the end.

DawnOfTheDoggers · 20/08/2015 22:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProcessYellowC · 20/08/2015 23:01

Yup, your friend was rude and just passing judgement on something she didn't understand at all.

I'd also like to say that "who wants to be 17 at uni when everyone is out enjoying freshers week and you can't go?!" is utter bollocks

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 20/08/2015 23:04

If you defer a year though, isnt there the issue of being put into year 1 rather than reception?

Rainuntilseptember15 · 20/08/2015 23:05

Trust me read some of the staff room threads on here and you would not be so negative about the curriculum for excellence, lack of testing etc.
(Not to OP but pps)

ShadowLine · 20/08/2015 23:16

Hamiltoes - in England, GCSEs are taken in the final year of secondary school - in the school year you turn 16, so a child born on Sep 1st will turn 16 on the first day of the final school year, and a child born on 31st August will turn 16 on the last day of the final school year (although they'll have finished before then what with summer holidays).

tabulahrasa · 20/08/2015 23:23

Hamiltoes - reception is the extra year, if you go with P1 being the same as year 1 then they are roughly the same age in England and Scotland.

I was a Christmas leaver because weirdly th

tabulahrasa · 20/08/2015 23:25

stupid phone...

I was saying weirdly the Scottish system is nice and flexible when you start, but is quite happy to be really strict about holding on to reluctant teens instead.

treaclesoda · 20/08/2015 23:32

In N Ireland there is no reception, its P1 like Scotland, and from what I read on MN it sounds much more formal than reception in England. Admittedly our cut off date is the start of July, not the end of August, so the youngest are 4 years and 2 months when they start. I used to think it was a good thing, and the angst over summer birthdays in England seemed a bit baffling, but the more I read about it, the more I think we do start formal education very early in the UK.

So in other words OP, I'm kind of on the fence. As an overall policy, I'm not sure about it. But that's the system at the moment, you know your child best and it was rude of your friend to criticise your decision.

treaclesoda · 20/08/2015 23:34

Out of interest, what's the situation in Wales? How does it work there?

wigglesrock · 20/08/2015 23:41

Your friend was rude, like treaclesoda mentioned NI is slightly different - kids start P1 the September after their fourth birthday (providing they're born before July 2 or thereabouts). My eldest started when she was 4 years and 2 months, my second started at 4 years 10 months and my youngest will start when she's 4 years 7 months (in 2 weeks time ).

They all went to a nursery school attached to a primary the academic year before, (although not the primary school they go to). To be very honest I'm happy for them to go into primary school at 4, P1 is play based - I have never in real life heard anyone complain or mention even that they feel formal school starts too young. I know the Assembly here were looking at allowing deferring entry but it just didn't have the overall support and they've made a big enough cock up with post primary transfer that they just viewed with suspicion now with regard to education.

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