To wonder if the school day for secondary school pupils ran like a 9-5 office day

[LunchpackOfNotreDame]

Especially for the upper years, would this have a positive effect on children? I'm not asking about the whys and wherefores on the impact on teachers but whether running a longer school day would help?

I don't know what side I fall on this but I have noticed when speaking to colleagues that went to private school and who find the long hours 'easy' or 'manageable' say it's because they did it from a young age.

If they were to do that they would need to employ a lot of cover supervisors. Teachers need to have meetings, mark, do preparation and the 101 things that are part of the job when the pupils are not there. The job would be impossible otherwise. People in offices work long hours but they have finished once they get home whereas teachers would just be starting the other part of the job.

I would be against it in general for exactly the reasons Katymac said.

Ds will be going to a private school where the school day ends at 4pm. Dd goes to vocationsl dance school & finishes at 6pm. Being a specialist school the dance classes she does daily between 4-6pm are very high quality.

No ordinary academic school could provide that calibre of classes in a full range of artistic & sporting disciplines to suit the aptutude of the various children.

I'm a teacher. If I taught 9-5 I'd never fit in marking, planning, extra - curricular clubs, report writing, data analysis, meetings, phone calls, mentoring, booster groups or seeing my own child.

Back in the day, my school began at 8.55. and finished at 3.50. But the there was a 15-minute assembly/prayers every day and an hour for lunch. Also a morning break of no less than 20 minutes.

I think it is a question of people not taking into account that a large part of the teacher's job is when the pupils have gone home.

If nurseries are open 8-6 I don't see why schools shouldn't be.

It doesn't mean class teachers should work these hours or that the full day is compulsory but imo they should be open for pupils who want to, to use their facilities eg breakfast clubs, homework clubs, sport, music etc.

No... They get too tired. Not physically perhaps but mentally. Ask anyone who has ever taught the last period of the day.

I'm totally against longer school hours, there's no need for it.

They have the rest of their life to get used to working hours. That's also what Saturday/holiday jobs are for!

My children (both primary and secondary) do after school clubs that they wouldn't be able to if they were forced to stay at school until 5 . How could a school manage to run the same choice and standard of clubs that are available out of school. And who would run them? The teachers? What about the huge cost of keeping the school open and fully staffed until 5, how would that be paid for?

Most secondary schools run homework clubs already. And I was under the impression that homework was to help a child consolidate and extend the work done at school, to learn independently and to test the child's understanding of the subject.

Also , I'd quite like to see my child for a couple of hours after school ! If a primary school child is coming home at 5.30, it would be pretty much tea, bath and bed, with no downtime at all.

When are they going to get home and cook their own child's meal, help them with homework, put them to bed, collect from the childminder, take to the dentist etc if they can't start a school meeting until at least 5:15pm?

When I was at school, even in 6th form, I had had enough by the end of the school day and just wanted to chill out alone, read a book , even if homework I wanted my own space and silence.
It isn't even as if upper years need childcare- they are fine at home alone. Can even cook the meal for you if you are lucky!

Lightbulbon

"imo they should be open for pupils who want to, to use their facilities eg breakfast clubs, homework clubs, sport, music etc."

You mean like many schools already are?

If nurseries are open 8-6 I don't see why schools shouldn't be.

Because nurseries are childcare, which parents pay for and schools are not.

My DC were fine 8-6 in nursery and I'm sure would be fine in school 9-5. You just adjust your pace. So longer for lunch etc. Judging by this thread it seems workable so long as schools have crèches for teachers own kids plus on site dentists and a few cosy beanbag corners. Problem solved

A lot of key stage four students are in school until five anyway, attending revision classes and the like.
To enforce it for all would be too much.
I had a low ability all boy year 11 class last year, and they really struggled with revision classes after school, and our revision classes run from 2.45 - 3.45. For many of them, it was a waste of their time, and mine.

It will never happen, because to pay teachers for extra directed time would cost more than the government is willing to pay.

Two of my DSs are in secondary and their school day is longer. DS4 is in primary and does 9-3.15. DS 2-3 do 8.30-4. Longer school day would save money on childcare although there is no childcare for secondary age children so they have to hang around in the library.

My teen is at 6th form and stays longer a couple of times a week for extra study where there is a maths tutor available if needed. She has an hour's travel each way so some days she's out from 7.30am until 6pm. She also works two evenings from 5pm until 10 or 11pm. And two 7 hour shifts at weekends. I think she does enough school to be honest and forcing her to attend until 5pm every day would impact on her social and work life which are important too.

"you just adjust your pace"

There is no adjusting pace for teachers, if a child is in your class they have to be learning. the pace is set by the children which is set by the government

in order to have consistently good to outstanding lessons the majority class must make faster progress than the national average for the target grade. (paraphrased)

Rainbow

"Longer school day would save money on childcare"

Teachers are not free childcare

The comparison between school and nursery is laughable. School is not childcare, despite the fact that many parents think of it as so.

Most schools actually start at 8.40 and finish after 3 that's long enough. When are teachers supposed to do the other half of their jobs? The data, the reports, planning and prep? I don't leave till 6 and I start at 8 ( not get in make a coffee start, as in and doing stuff in the classroom at 8).

Comparisons with private schools also are not accurate. The "prep" time in private schools which is usually between 4 and 5 is supervised in large rooms by a few members of staff on rotation. On top of that, private school teachers tend to have lighter timetables, and smaller class sizes, making this more possible. Oh and they get an afternoon break as well as lunch and morning.

Most schools actually offer homework clubs in computer suites, study rooms are open for 6th formers to use and twilight revision and catch up sessions are offered by staff from about October half term onward.

I actually think schools do enough.

'in order to have consistently good to outstanding lessons the majority class must make faster progress than the national average for the target grade. (paraphrased)'

Ah yes I forget all the government bollocks involved with schools now.

When I run the country schools will be judged on how often they move classes to outside under the tree on sunny days, the smell of the library, having proper plates for lunch and other such key school issues.

As an introvert (although i didnt know it then) i found school hard work, nowhere to be alone, nowhere to take 5 minutes if i needed to breathe, always having to talk to people and answer people. Getting through my front door in the afternoon was the biggest relief of each day. Extending school to 5pm would have meant not getting home until 6pm. I really would have found that exhausting. College and work are different in that you can go to the bathroom as you please and take a breather, its a different dynamic. I really dont think i would have benefitted from longer school hours.

Teachers are busy enough already.

I wouldn't have wanted the school day to be any longer, as I appreciated the time to myself after school (like SurlyCue I am an introvert), the different environment etc.

A longer school day doesn't mean teachers working more hours!

As for 'schools aren't childcare' - go read up on the development of elementary education in the 19th century - schools were often set up to keep 'feral' kids off the streets.

When I was at primary school in the 80s the school day was 9-3.45 with an hour's lunch and a morning and afternoon break of 15 mins each.

I think it's been a big mistake to cut the breaks and the school day.

Back then secondaries were open 9-4. My eldest's school shuts at 2.30 2 days a week which I think is just crazy.

We have these lovely shiny new school buildings with great facilities everywhere yet they are lying empty and unused for most hours of most days of the year.

I think this whole discussion is moot anyway. We are moving towards an economy where both parents will have to work full time to survive so either all schools are going to be open longer or the next generation will be latchkey kids from 4.