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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be put off labour by all the bitching

93 replies

SouthWestmom · 17/08/2015 22:11

Seriously, I just don't have any respect for a party where they are all briefing against each other (well, jeremy) - rolling out Gordon to try to put everyone off?

OP posts:

Funinthesun15 · 18/08/2015 15:20

Posted too soon...

If they fragment, then it is highly unlikely that they would win any GE in the near future.

There are also talks of legal actions and rebellions going to take place. I don't think it is all talk and could see it happening.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 15:42

If JC wins he may struggle with the PLP over policy and voting, with MPs voting against him and the whip

OK, that's reasonable and, as you say, he can hardly complain about that.

There are also talks of legal actions and rebellions going to take place

This is what's winding me up. If the majority of Labour supporters voted for him, who is anyone else to say "Sorry, you're not going to get him". It crystallises on the part of my ramble that suggests "The Labour Party defines itself and you decide if you want to join us, but you can't enact change".

Does the majority of the PLP think JC isn't Labour?

LurkingHusband · 18/08/2015 15:59

Ever since I can remember (which is longer than I'd care too), one thing Labour have always claimed in situations like this was that they were the only party that decided their future in the public eye.

One wonders what backroom deals Cameron has had to do to keep his party in line ?

The irony is the Tories are just as hopelessly divided as Labour, if not more so. I am still awaiting the pro-EU/anti-EU split to happen. It's been building since 1973. (Of course it it were to happen, then there would be no more Conservative governments).

MARTIN1 · 18/08/2015 16:25

It is dis-heartening to see this charade being played out in public. The Tories must be loving it. The British public deserve a credible and united opposition to the government and we aren't going to get that for at least another five years because with all this squabbling going on, whoever becomes leader will have to spend years quelling the dissent within the party. Labour should have elected a new leader quickly after the election and used their time being an effective opposition party. Looking at the current MPs none of them jump out at me as potential Prime Ministerial material come 2020.

LurkingHusband · 18/08/2015 16:33

It is dis-heartening to see this charade being played out in public

And if it wasn't, people (probably the same ones bitching now) would complain that it was being held "in smoke-filled rooms".

Personally, I would suggest that this situation - and indeed the obvious confusion in the run up to the general election - are symptoms that the political process no longer acts to reflect the views of society as a whole. In fact, it's astoundingly naive to expect two massive monolithic parties like Labour and Conservative to be able to encompass the incredible variation in peoples beliefs, attitudes, and aspirations.

Maybe, just maybe, if our electoral system was able to capture such a spread, we could have a stronger Labour party, or a viable more left-wing presence. However, as a country we decided we were satisfied with FPTP, so that's that. Maybe our grandchildren will think differently, when the next chance to change the electoral system comes. Or maybe they'll be tricked too.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 16:36

I agree, Lurking.

thehypocritesoaf · 18/08/2015 16:41

All leadership contests look pretty grubby to onlookers- this is no exception.

Andy burnham comes across as desperate- and what was it they said about Reagan - always agrees with the last person he's been speaking too.
The lack of attention the party gives to the two female candidates shows what a sexist dinosaur this party is.

As for corbyn- pathetic- he is answering questions of forty years ago (and they were the wrong answers then). I think he is too much of a non entity to be a complete disaster but it'll be close.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:01

he is answering questions of forty years ago

I'm not clear what people mean when they say this.

He wants to renationalise railways - I agree with him. Does that mean I'm stuck 40 years in the past?

He wants free university tuition - I agree with him. Am I fifteen years behind? (TBH, despite it being one of my "big issues", I can see more of an argument against this than the railway question these days).

MARTIN1 · 18/08/2015 17:05

I'm not sure why people want the trains renationalised. Whenever I'm waiting for a delayed train I often here this request. I wasn't a commuter pre-sell off but I don't know many organisations that do better once they are taken back in to public ownership. RBS is a primary example

thehypocritesoaf · 18/08/2015 17:10

Yes. We have a lot of issues to face and all I hear is jc blathering on about the railways.
I don't think nationalisation will improve the system and I am willing to bet £10( that the majority of electorate don't want that either.

LurkingHusband · 18/08/2015 17:10

I'm not sure why people want the trains renationalised.

Because the only change some people have seen is richer train companies, rather than improved service ? Although it's hard to argue that rail privatisation has failed. It just hasn't done what people were tricked into believing what was promised.

However, it did succeed in allowing the government of the day to cash in on the eye-watering property prices in city centres, by separating the track and the stations. You'd be amazed how much you could flog the buildings for. Why do you think the sale was so cack-handed. They had to extract the juicy bits and leave the taxpayer to pick up the rest.

thehypocritesoaf · 18/08/2015 17:15

Is this genuinely a priority for people?
I live in a commuter county and it is definitely not here.
It seems curious to me that there are a million arguments to be had on Nhs, housing, education, immigration and now we are faced with the prospect of a party leader whose big thing is railways.
I mean, really? People are passionate about this? They weren't at the general election, I can't see that they are now.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:16

Because the promised privatisation = free market = competition = lower prices hasn't happened. It was worth a shot, but it's a failed experiment.

Check out the success of the recent East Coast Main line renationalisation experiment to see how effective public ownership can be.

Link

It delivered £1b to the Treasury over the five years it was nationalised.

Link

Or should we keep on giving our existing rail operators £4b a year in subsidies?

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:17

I am willing to bet £10

Taken.

It is currently estimated that 65-70% of voters want the railways renationalised.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:18

Is this genuinely a priority for people?

I brought it up because of earlier suggestions that JC was living 40 years behind the times. I wondered if this was an example the poster had in mind with that comment.

thehypocritesoaf · 18/08/2015 17:19

Let's do it maid of stars!

Assuming jc wins, campaigns under that, and we haven't name changed!

LurkingHusband · 18/08/2015 17:20

Because the promised privatisation = free market = competition = lower prices hasn't happened. It was worth a shot, but it's a failed experiment.

How come people distrust everything politicians say, until they are hoodwinked ?

Hands up anyone who thought rail privatisation was anything other than more family silver to be sold off to Tory-friendly companies ?

On a related note, when can I decide who I want to supply my mains water ? After all, privatisation is all about consumer choice, isn't it. ?

Isn't it ?

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:21

Oh hang on, I was betting that the electorate wanted it. What are you trying to sucker me into?

LurkingHusband · 18/08/2015 17:21

It is currently estimated that 65-70% of voters want the railways renationalised.

Where were they on May 7th ?

thehypocritesoaf · 18/08/2015 17:23

Ah! I'm betting that jc won't lead labour to victory on a re nationalisation ticket in 2020.

thehypocritesoaf · 18/08/2015 17:24

I do find the initials jc disconcerting tho.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:26

Ah! I'm betting that jc won't lead labour to victory on a re nationalisation ticket in 2020

Well, there are lots of parts of that statement that I wouldn't take the bet on

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:26

It makes me laugh when I see "What would JC do?".

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:29

On a related note, when can I decide who I want to supply my mains water?

And the leccy.

What's the word, you know, when a group of manufacturers/suppliers work together to lobby government, control supply, prices and stifle competition? Tip of my tongue.

Oh yeah, cartel.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 17:30

(Sorry, that was a bit rambling)

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