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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be put off labour by all the bitching

93 replies

SouthWestmom · 17/08/2015 22:11

Seriously, I just don't have any respect for a party where they are all briefing against each other (well, jeremy) - rolling out Gordon to try to put everyone off?

OP posts:
GiddyOnZackHunt · 17/08/2015 23:11

Yy Noeuf and Corbyn isn't even having to do much arguing his case. He's stood there saying growth not austerity and let's try to resolve stuff by talking rather than fighting and nobody can pick holes because he's stuck to his line all along. The MPs who abstained in the recent welfare vote were lambs to the media slaughter. The Conservative front bench have flip flopped and dithered. Let's have someone who isn't in hock to ambition, Murdoch or Big Corp Inc.

Garlick · 17/08/2015 23:16

Oh dear, longfingernails! I guess lots of new voters who've never engaged with politics before ...

longfingernails · 17/08/2015 23:22

Garlick I am sure once Jeremy gives his 'let all the illegals in', the people of Nuneaton, Bedford and the other marginals will flock to him.

longfingernails · 17/08/2015 23:22

Garlick I am sure once Jeremy gives his 'let all the illegals in' speech, the people of Nuneaton, Bedford and the other marginals will flock to him.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 17/08/2015 23:23

So lfn do tell how this has put you off the Labour Party? From your starting position of absolutely detesting them and all their supporters?

GiddyOnZackHunt · 17/08/2015 23:26

Or perhaps his position on the EU will appeal. Still you'll get your say in 2020 but not now.

cardibach · 17/08/2015 23:28

I'd agree that there has been a bit too much of why not to vote Corbyn rather than why to vote for any of the others, but I don't see it as 'bitching'! Debate and disagreement is how democracy works...

longfingernails · 17/08/2015 23:30

GiddyOnZackHunt On the contrary, I congratulate the Parliamentary Labour party, particularly the Blairites who 'lent Corbyn their vote', magnificently. I urge Labour to continue in this vein for many years to come.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 17/08/2015 23:42

Yes, yes you think he's unelectable and you're squeezing your shares with joy at the prospect of Wallpaper Boy driving the country into a ditch for the next 10 years. Big news lfn
But no matter what you say here unless you have a leadership vote you don't matter.
And so to bed.

Original poster
SouthWestmom · 18/08/2015 00:10

Cardibach, I agree but debate between parties or within parties, not this unexciting scramble against one of their own?

OP posts:
TheCatsFlaps · 18/08/2015 00:46

I think this whole debacle shows the absolute disconnect between the career politicians and the grassroots members. The contempt for ordinary members is plain and the "we know best" attitude is part of the reason Labour is now so fucked up. Wheeling out Boorish Brown with his whole mantra just screams power for the sake of power, and offers no compelling reason to vote Labour; it comes down to the fact that Labour feels it must be more Tory than the Tories to appeal to middle England at the cost of forgetting its roots. Corbyn will never be PM, but at least he's given some of these mental cases a run for their money.

SilverDragonfly1 · 18/08/2015 08:36

They've made it clear that for most of the potential leaders, having power is far more important than having any sort of integrity or Socialist intent. Sickening.

If Jeremy Corbyn gets in, I will join the party. If not, Green will be my only option for the foreseeable future.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 08:40

The only passion from the suited 3 has been Not Jeremy!

It's a reiteration of the GE campaign - Not Cameron!

AuntieStella · 18/08/2015 08:55

It's as if there's a cabal of 'heirs of Tony' who are acting a bit like Putin - in the sense that 'you can have a democratic vote, as long as the outcome is someone we approve of'.

(I hope Corbyn wins. Labour might be unelectable in the short term. But might just become again a party with ideals and convictions).

LizzyUseless · 18/08/2015 10:21

I agree CatsFlaps. The "leave this to the grown ups, run away and play" attitude of certain people on the right is part of the problem if they could only see it. And some of them do seem to believe it's their party to command.

If they hadn't attacked Corbyn so vociferously, he probably wouldn't be doing anywhere near so well.

As for Mandelson... Hmm

GiddyOnZackHunt · 18/08/2015 10:35

Maid indeed and how well it worked then. Not. :(

limitedperiodonly · 18/08/2015 10:39

I would have mine if I hadn't defected to Lib Dems instead

You're complaining about bitching in the Labour Party and you're a LibDem? Grin

DayLillie · 18/08/2015 10:50

I have been pissed off with all the bitching, but expected it with Blair et al, because that is what they were like in government and partly what finished me off with them.

Now that Neil Kinnock has stuck his oar in (who I met years ago whilst I used to do things with the labour party) I despair.

What is wrong with saying think very carefully what you want and vote for that.

By rubbishing other candidates and saying that voting for one will bring on the Apocalypse, you are just left with a pile of twats to vote for, and they will probably be self-serving and following the money, if the last 'successful' lot are anything to go by.

Meanwhile, what is being done for youth unemployment and prospects. What have they to look forward to. Does anyone care?

Garlick · 18/08/2015 14:43

I have a depressing feeling that, if Corbyn does as well as expected, the Tories will immediately start conveying his message more forcefully than Labour. "Hard-working families" was the lynchpin of Labour's policy in 2009/10, but you'd never guess.

The Tories might be - umm, flaky in actual governance, but they're fantastic at PR. Corbyn's genuine conviction makes a strong antithesis to that. Unfortunately, his party doesn't seem to have grasped it at all. It's bewildering to see what a massive disconnect they have with their members/associates/followers.

Yarp · 18/08/2015 14:54

I thought this was going to be about giving birth

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 14:54

I have some rambling thoughts that might not make much sense. They are prompted by something Tessa Jowell said on TV the other night, about JC being a bad thing, his politics being wrong for the Labour Party, but not going against democracy if he's elected blah blah.

I am wondering about who or what defines the purpose of a political party. Is the Labour Party what I want want it to be, or is the Labour Party an entity to whom I can affiliate (but not expect to change radically)? If JC wins and half of the Labour Party split off, who takes the title with them?

Does that make sense? What is Labour? Who gets to say what Labour is? I mean, obviously, at the moment, the voters do. But the majority of the Labour Party are telling JC voters that, what? they aren't really Labour?

Funinthesun15 · 18/08/2015 15:02

I can't see the infighting finishing any time soon tbh.

What with any one right of JC being told to 'join the tories' and some of the really vile things being said etc, I cannot see it ending in September.

MaidOfStars · 18/08/2015 15:10

What do people actually mean when they predict annihilation for Labour under JC?

Do they mean that they will lose the next GE? Or do they mean the party will fragment? Is that really likely? Do we imagine that the Labour Party will become the JC Show (I don't)?

I've seen predictions of coups, resignations...is it spitting dummies out or is he really so monstrous (I can't see it)?

Garlick · 18/08/2015 15:14

Maid, my feeling is the Labour Party changed radically post-Blair and didn't tell anyone. They should have broken links with the unions and re-named themselves the SDP Grin

All Corbyn's done is stated (old) Labour values clearly & pragmatically. I think this is why they keep going on about going backwards. He's not aiming to reconstruct the past - they mean going backwards in terms of what Labour stands for.

Which is why I voted for him. There is currently no party promoting ideas I feel I can support. Labour's getting a chance to fill the ideological gap that opened when it shifted rightwards. If it doesn't, I'll likely join the disaffected but voiceless mass, voting once every five years if I can be bothered.

Funinthesun15 · 18/08/2015 15:17

Do they mean that they will lose the next GE? Or do they mean the party will fragment? Is that really likely? Do we imagine that the Labour Party will become the JC Show

I think the party fragmenting is very likely.

If JC wins he may struggle with the PLP over policy and voting, with MPs voting against him and the whip. He can't of course complain against this as he has voted and rebelled again to them over 500 times himself.