Is he right - anything lower than a B isn't worth bothering with ... Uni related ...

[UsedtobeFeckless]

Just had a row with my brother - who is being a pompous twat. But is he a pompous twat with a point?

Basically, his son ( My nephew, let's call him Kev ) just got his A level results - Bs and Cs - and missed both his offers. He's really upset, understandably. My brother is also upset - he's insisting Kev retake, as Any degree with entry requirements that low isn't worth the paper it's written on ...

Thing is, two of the three universities that DS1 ( Who is in the year below Kev at the same school ) is considering have Bs and Cs as their standard offer. My brother insists that employers would rather have someone with a third from a prestigious university than someone with a first from somewhere less well known - is he right? I thought degrees were technically worth the same irrespective of where they were from ...

Is it worth DS running up a huge debt if no-one's going to give him a chance because he didn't go to a Russell Group college?

Is that true about thirds and 2:2s?
When I was at university at least half, probably more, ended up with those classes. Very, very few people achieved a first - a tiny fraction.
It wAs a very good university and most students worked hard.
My friend had a third. She certainly didn't 'just sign her name'. Another one with a third edited a major Sunday newspaper. He didn't 'just sign his nam' either.

It depends on what field you want to go into. But in my field, law, how prestigious the university is makes a huge difference. A 2.1 from Oxbridge beats a first from the RG, and a 2.1 from the RG beats a first from an ex poly. A degree from a RG uni will, in general, open more doors. But obviously it's perfectly possible to get a decent job with a degree from an ex poly. I reckon if kev is capable of As and getting into a better uni, it is probably the right choice for him.

Amicissima - I think you should cast your eye over the number of people with Oxbridge history degrees in the city. Sounds like you're assuming an humanities degree from a top uni somehow goes nowhere - really not true. If we're talking humanities v stem at a lesser uni, then I'd agree that stem is a better bet.

thecatfromjapan. A lot has changed since I was at uni. I got a 2.2, but it hasn't seemed to hold me back - I went on to do postgrad degrees, inc a PhD and I'm now an academic. However, I'm not sure that career path would have been as available to me if I was graduating with a 2.2 now.

I agree tho - it's easier, or more possible shall we say, to get a 1st now than it was 20 years ago. For various reasons (none of them necessarily to do with degrees getting easier, iyswim)

Yes the companies I have worked for only accepted people from red bricks also

A lot of graduates from ex polys end up in call centres

Nowadays you need a degree even for a minimum wage job

I think he's talking bollocks

Resits wouldn't always help anyway as I imagine top law firms would look at the first time you took them.

DN needs to work out what he wants to do, can do with the grades he has and get on with it. I wouldn't encourage resitting personally.

I'm a surveyor. Every year I pick which graduates and students to interview. We get so many CVs that I only read those of candidates with firsts. And that still leaves me with scores of candidates to interview for only 2 places. Competition is fierce.

Anyone with a 2:2 or 3rd in this day and age I'd assume was either drunk, stupid or spent their entire university time on a sports pitch.

I've interviewed enough candidates who have both 1sts and sporting blues. I've been spoilt for choice of excellent candidates. I wouldn't waste my time interviewing someone with a mediocre CV in any way.

A good employer will be looking for a range of skills: among the most important will be drive, determination, resilience, inter-personal skills etc. Academic results will give an idea of academic ability, but will also be indicative of the other characteristics. So a student from a very challenging background who has reached university and got a 2:1 may well be preferred over one from a middle class home. So the question is why did your DN get these results? Could he have done better if he had worked harder? Is he lazy? Did somehting catastrophic happen in his A level year which accounts for a performance below what he was expected to achieve? How will he respond to this challenge. These are all factors I would be examining.
But the sad truth is that in highly competitive jobs with 100 applicants per place, your DNs application could be lost in the sifting process before these factors are considered.

Life doesn't end at A levels or first degrees

Tell him to do something he enjoys and do it well

OP your brother's mindset is very fixed. There are loads of approaches to uni. My sister got low grades and missed the chance of LSE. She went to a poly through clearing instead and got a first.

A friend's daughter got low grades but scraped into one of her uni choices when they made an allowance for her, and she's just come out with a first too.

Dawn - that's so sad, but don't keep reinforcing what she said. ABBD is a fine set of results. Any uni would take a mature student with those. Aim high. Approach the kind of uni you think you don't stand a cat's chance in hell with. You may be very surprised.

I all but failed my A levels and went to a RG uni through clearing onto one of their undersubscribed courses.

There are ways round things.

I think the combination of best degree/best uni for Kev is key. No point him going somewhere he would hate or doing a course he would hate just because it's the done thing, because while there is undoubtedly still an old boys' network in some circumstances, a really poor degree result will make it difficult for him to be employed anywhere, old boys or not.

That said, I don't have kids, but if I did I would want them to carefully consider the value in going to uni now, given the costs. Still warranted for many people but I don't think it should be the automatic assumption it's become.

I've got a first from a red brick uni in a decent arts/social science subject that does have some vocational uses, more specifically so than say, an English degree. I've name changed for this, because I'm aware I could sound very up myself, but I didn't work particularly hard at it, I'm naturally quite intellectual, chose a subject I loved and where feasible, chose modules that played to my strengths. Frankly it was easy and I held down a part time job throughout my time at uni plus had a varied social life. I've encountered the attitude that someone with a first must be a geek or loner and that a 2.1 is more desirable.

Frankly, if I was looking at uni now, with current costs, and knowing how little I've actually used it, I'd reconsider. And that's from someone who absolutely adored uni. Several of my peers are now of the opinion that they would have been better off doing a vocational course, based on how little they enjoy their jobs, and I have a 45k (with no overtime) job that requires no qualifications...

Clearly my essay skills are rusty as this is long and rambling, but what I'm getting at is that Kev shouldn't be railroaded and nor should your ds (not that I think you would) when the time comes.

It depends on what sort of student your nephew is. Was he very lazy, and that's why he's ended up with C grades? Or did he work his socks off for them? If he can get an A or A* in his A Levels by making more effort, then, yes, he should re-take and go for a Russell or 1994 group uni. On the other hand, if a C is realistically his highest possible grade, he should use Clearing to find the best possible course for his subject. Your brother should bear in mind that through Clearing universities may often accept a student with lower grades than the usual entry criteria.

The above also applies to your son. If he works hard at uni, any uni, and gets a good degree, plus some relevant work experience, he will be an asset to an employer when he graduates. For now, he should concentrate on working hard to get the best possible A Level grades. Remember that if he exceeds his university offer grades, he can "adjust" through UCAS and choose a different university. Studying at uni is expensive and requires a huge amount of dedication so the main thing is to choose a course that you will enjoy and get the most out of.

Good luck to both boys, and to other posters' children or relatives who received exam. results yesterday.

thecat I think the difference now is that comparatively very few people gets thirds (say what you like about grade inflation) so it is seen as a very poor outcome. Similarly with 2.2s. Most now get a 2.1

With fees, and with the huge numbers of students graduating nowadays, I really wouldn't go to university now unless it is to do a course which leads to a degree, or it's at a top 10 place. 50k fees to do business at Luton? It's a massive waste imo. And I work at a very prestigious uni (and my PhD is from the 'world's best university too )

I agree with your brother apart from the third business which is out of date.

All these people posting experience form 15 years ago - it's not like that any more, not when 50% of young people have a degree!

Also the '2.1 better than first' is absolutely not the case in science / engineering, trust me!

'A course which leads to a job' that should say. Law, engineering, a pure science for eg

Is the fact that people don't get thirds due to the fact that as they have paid huge sums of money to the university, to come out with a third would leave the university open to being sued for not delivering what the student has paid for?

Oliver, no. Most people who would have come out with thirds usually fail the course at some point along the way and therefore don't graduate at all, or subsequently transfer onto another (often more appropriate) course.

There was a case about 5 or so years ago of a student suing a university because he got a 2:2, iirc it was Queen's University Belfast, but I don't know what the outcome of the case was.

Won't a future employer who is only interested in RG uni degrees be put off by Kev having to resit a levels? Is it really worth him resorting? I haven't got an RG uni degree but my uni was considered to be a reasonably good one. Did Masters to give me more of advantage at another non RG uni and got good, well paid job. Know lots of other people who have degrees from ex polys who are doing very well. But do think it depends on which field Kev wants to go into and how competitive it is. But think Kevs Dad is being a bit over dramatic.

I mean is it worth Kev resitting ? Sorry

Depends on profession and what you want to do. I did rubbish at a-levels due to having a bit too much freedom at college. I scraped into an ex poly on a side course to the biomed degree that I really wanted to do. Proved myself in first year and transferred onto the proper course and came out with a strong 2:1. I work in my chosen field and no one has ever asked me now where I went to uni or what I got - most biomed degrees are a better quality in 'new university's'

I'm actually not too worried about Kev; if Daddy is MD of the company then I imagine he will find a graduate trainee job there pretty easy to obtain. Sadly that's how it seems to work nowadays.