Is he right - anything lower than a B isn't worth bothering with ... Uni related ...

[UsedtobeFeckless]

Just had a row with my brother - who is being a pompous twat. But is he a pompous twat with a point?

Basically, his son ( My nephew, let's call him Kev ) just got his A level results - Bs and Cs - and missed both his offers. He's really upset, understandably. My brother is also upset - he's insisting Kev retake, as Any degree with entry requirements that low isn't worth the paper it's written on ...

Thing is, two of the three universities that DS1 ( Who is in the year below Kev at the same school ) is considering have Bs and Cs as their standard offer. My brother insists that employers would rather have someone with a third from a prestigious university than someone with a first from somewhere less well known - is he right? I thought degrees were technically worth the same irrespective of where they were from ...

Is it worth DS running up a huge debt if no-one's going to give him a chance because he didn't go to a Russell Group college?

The claim that you need very high grades and a RG degree for law is bullshit. My cousin didn't sit GCSEs as she was unwell, then did a vocational BTEC. From there she did a vocational, science-based degree at a former poly, and converted to law at the same place. She secured a training contract with no problem and practised for about 7 years before taking a short career break with DCs. She is now establishing her employment law / HR business and has more lucrative work than she can take on.

It's not bullshit. The legal sector was a very different place all those years ago. Nowadays, if you want to go the traditional route into law, you need outstanding grades. There's lots of competition and too few places.

And someone's Granny smoked 60 a day and died at 100.

There are always exceptions but they don't disprove the rule.

The reality is that a degree is absolutely not the currency it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

A lot of folk have one!

So you need to make yours the most valuable it can be. This means a course generally with a high grade requirement ( these courses attract the brightest students and best academics).

The exception is a vocational degree ( which perhaps ought to be better described as something else but hey ho), where skills are most important than research.

So personally, if Kev is an able student who fucked up and doesn't want to do a vocational course then , yes, I'd advise retakes.

People get so get up over this Russell Group thing.

It didn't even exist when I went to university - and it is totally self selecting. There are also many very good, top achieving universities not in RG.

Seriously - here are far more important decisions to make when deciding when and where to go to university. Whether it is RG should be fairly low down on the list of priorities.

And going to RG university won't guarantee you a well paid job. Infact more of the people I know in the higher earning jobs of our friends did not go to a RH university. Infact a number went - dare I say it - to an old poly (just as they were changing to all universities) so be careful when makin choices.

Sorry but your DB is chatting crap. All employers would prefer a first rather than a third. They don't care which Uni it's from because they all have the same standards.

The only reason the likes of oxford of Cambridge have the reputation they do, is they have a higher percentage of firsts achieved, and past "influences" from parents.

How far off the grade was he ? They changed the grading criteria this year so two of our students who were due A got a B. Moved the A criteria by 1 point.

I do wish people would stop giving examples from their own educational experience - things have changed so much and they are being potentially dangerously misleading. Yes, of course there are always people who have taken unconventional routes and been incredibly successful- but they have always been few and far between and even more so now. You need the best degree you can get from the best university you can get into.

"Sorry but your DB is chatting crap. "All employers would prefer a first rather than a third. They don't care which Uni it's from because they all have the same standards."
The first sentence is true. The second isn't.

All universities do not have the same standards.

They set their own curricula and mark their own papers.

I feel sad for Kev. He's obviously gutted; having spent the last two years working towards this goal, probably with the school and pushy DF gunning for him he must feel rotten.

Heaven knows how everyone knows what the future holds for our DC but there are always other ways of getting where you want to be.

Re sitting might well be the best option, but equally Clearing might throw up a course that he'd love.

I think going to an RG university does give you a certain credibility on a job application to be honest, but it's certainly not the be all and end all. It's more important to get a good classification of degree (which is more likely to happen if you attend a university you really want to go to, and have looked at the course breakdown and feel really enthusiastic about the modules), and ideally some work experience in a related field - that will give a massive advantage at interviews if you can talk positively and knowledgeably about relevant things you did during work experience and shows you are really serious.

And as others have pointed out, some non-RG universities are considered the best place for particular subjects.

I work for a (heaven forbid!) ex-poly Uni which is low in the league tables, but our vocational courses are extremely well-respected within the industry and we score highly in student/employer satisfaction. We also have a high graduate employment rate and fantastic industry links, opportunities for work experience, internships, etc.

League tables are a load of shite for Uni's like us as the criteria they are based on are outdated and heavily focused on income from research, so institutions that don't have a large number of research degrees will always fall foul.

It all comes down to the subject you want to do. I have a good degree in a 'traditional' subject from a top 10 RG Uni. It's opened no doors for me at all. If I could have my time again, I'd do a more practical, skills-based degree with good employer links to increase my chances of employment in a specific area. Or, in fact, sod that all together and do an apprenticeship!

I hope he makes the decision that's right for him. I was pressured into doing a 'proper' degree rather than the one I wanted to do (at a non-RG, very avant-garde Arts college) and it's the only regret I've ever had in life.

Friends dh owns a company in the City and refuses to actually employ anyone with a degree. He prefers to train people on the job as the type of work he is involved in changes minute by minute, second by second and it is not something that a university can teach you. In fact he found the university graduates he employed in the past tried to tell him how to run his business based on out dated information they were taught over the past 3 years.

It is an unpopular view to say that all unis are not equal, as the majority of people did not go to one of the 'top' unis.

There is a lot of truth however that employers often look at where you got your degree from first. I went to a very highly regarded uni and my peers all found very well paid jobs quickly in their desired fields. Most had several offers to choose from, and started on a salary of over 30,000. They found that their degrees did open doors.

On the other hand I know friends from school who went to less well regarded universities (though in a lot of cases still 'russel group') and struggled to find employment.

I would now caution anyone from doing a degree except those at a handful of universities, as it isn't worth the debt.

I think it varies by field and by manager. Certainly, when I've been hiring people I've looked at their degree class first and university second but I have looked at their university. So I'd say that a First is always better than a Third but a 2.1 from Oxbridge is better than a 2.1 from an ex poly.

But there are exceptions and also I think what a student does with their time matters - I would always rather take someone who has volunteered, has done extra curricular, has actually interesting things to say about their degree and shows initiative; a well rounded person.

I also think it matters less and less as you get older. I'm 36. I went to Oxford. People stopped caring when I was in my twenties. It gave me an initial break but after job 2 no one gave a damn.

anutter mine too!

Before anyone questions my spelling or grammar, I took a science degree and am posting on my phone.

Haven't read the full thread, but to add on a practical note, that there are some RG and other v good universities in clearing this year offering courses with a mix of Bs and Cs. It might be worth getting your nephew to ring round, esp if he is flexible about his subjects. Also re your son if he exceeds his grades then he can try adjustment if he wants.
Finally some people I know in recruitment just think that RG means good, but are not able to list all the RG universities!

Regardless of what's true or not; your brother is being an Arse and is likely making his son feel utterly worthless. Instead of being a twat he could be supporting Kev to make him own choices and showing him other pathways.

FWIW, I didn't go to uni. I've managed in all my jobs just fine.

External mods are there primarily to ensure consistent marking within an institution not consistency across all institutions.

That's not entirely true for all courses narrative some are highly regulated and have to meet certain criteria so there is less variation in quality.

I didn't go a "proper" uni, although RG didn't exist back then. I've kept up to date with my old uni and is currently ranked in the top 5 in the country for some courses (above the nearest RG uni for some). I think this proves you have to decide what you want to do, look at which uni is best for your course and balance that with the best fit for you so that you do your best.

I went to a lesser uni, which happens to be top 3 for my chosen subject. My colleague went to a RG uni which isn't known for our discipline. Mine is considered better than ours, but nobody gives a flying fuck anymore - we both have degrees, and we both have professional qualifications afterwards.

Doesn't matter one bit later on, but I'd still be looking at specific reputation for the chosen subject rather than simply
Going to a 'better' uni

I missed my offers by a country mile and ended up with all Cs. In my head they were beyond crap but a very nice lady on the clearing line told me they were good and I'd get to university. Ended up going through clearing and at a place I thought I wasn't capable of going to oddly (specialist place). Then did a postgrad research degree at a RG university followed by a further postgrad qualification at an ex-poly with had a leading department in that particular field.

I do very nicely now. I'm never going to be very highly paid because of the job I do.

I view my A-Levels as a temporary academic blip. I also remind my dm - who still, 18 years later, goes on about it - that had I gone to either of my choices, I might not have started seeing dh, and might not have produced her grandchildren.