Disgusted at the amount of people jealous of tube drivers pay

[Itsawd]

They do a job dealing with the public, unsociable hours and god knows what when they get a jumper. We should congratulate them on doing well, not look at them with green eyes.

Its a free market so if anyone wants a job as one they are welcome to apply!

Yes. We have good conditions. Except that they are trying to ride roughshod over agreements they have made to make the conditions considerably less favourable.
I must bow out now and get some sleep before the kids wake me up. Considering I have to be responsible for the safety of 1000s of people tomorrow.

I've never understood why, for some people, the answer to some people being underpaid for their jobs is to want other people to also be underpaid, rather than to want their own jobs to be paid more.

I'm a Londoner and everyone I know supports the strikes.

Do you consider 90% of the population to be underpaid?

Not read the whole thred but people should be paid based on their ability vs the whole workforce and peoples want for them.

Tube drivers are overpaid because the whole system should be automated.

Nurses are paid too little as there are not enough of them

Footballers are paid the right amount as there is a lot on money pumped into sport by customers who are happy to pay the wages.

Some CEO's are overpaid due to a closed shop, others are underpaid.

Well Sapat why don't you take yourself and all your training and long hours and apply for a job as a member of the station staff on the Underground, and then take the chance that you will eventually be the one out of all the hundreds of people who apply who gets to make it to the top and gets to be a driver then? Since it's so easy?

And for the love of God, it's not even the drivers striking!

I don't consider myself underpaid, I consider drivers overpaid.

Nurses are paid too little as there are not enough of them

You know that's not how the laws of economics work, yes?

Lol at Bob Crewe organising tube driver strikes because he wants a bbq. Yes, that well known former leader of... Oh wait, not the driver's union.

I work on the railway, not as a driver and not for tfl. I have a degree, so everyone who expressed concern about such high salaries without any qualifications can relax now. Of course, my degree is in no way related to my railway job. Mind you, it had no relevance to my project management jobs either. It actually was relevant to my tefl job but that was by sheer fluke, they didn't care what degree you had, only that you had one.

My most highly paid friend has the same degree as me (but a lower classification, since these things obviously matter to you people) and surprisingly it is also not relevant in the slightest to her 6 figure salary! But she wears a suit to work, not a uniform, so that's OK.

Just because the railway uses its own tests to recruit rather than arbitrarily requiring a degree doesn't mean anyone who fancies it can get in. And nor should they.

On the subject of automation, yes, let's automate tubes. Then mainline trains, trams, buses, taxis, planes - the technology is in development, right? And then let's further the automation of retail, farming, food production, assembly lines, picking and packing. Let's take teachers out of the classroom and have them teach via video conference because it will save money. Let's allow certain prescriptions to be collected from a vending machine into which we feed a barcode from the GP. That'll reduce the pharmacists we need. God, there's loads of people we could do away with! Think of the savings! Back to the railway, let's extend the use of cctv monitored barriers and remove all staff to central locations. If the cctv shows anything kicking off someone could be there in, say, 10 minutes.

It's a bit early, but I'll ring my local mp at an appropriate time and get him to suggest all the above in parliament when it reconvenes after the summer break.

I earn about what a tube driver earns. My job is breathtakingly easy albeit office based. It is in a beautiful place, I have a window looking onto a beautiful garden. My hours aren't long or unsociable although I do work hard and do require professional qualifications. The people I speak to every day are usually very nice. If I screw up nobody gets killed and no structural damage would be caused - the organisation might have to pay damages but nobody would be hurt. Generally I feel appreciated.

There is no way I would swap. I expect I could get a job on the railways, it would probably pay a little bit more than I got when I started at entry level.

Having said all of that I don't support the strikes. London is a 24 hour City and it needs 24 hour services. Some of those services are essential and striking stops people like nurses, teachers, doctors, and everyone else from getting to work and helping others. The terms and conditions are good and generous and nothing unreasonable is being asked.

Is it possible to find out about tube driving jobs if you have relevant work experience outside the London Underground - perhaps driving a train on an underground system in a different city?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/if-you-think-tube-drivers-are-overpaid-you-dont-understand-how-capitalism-works

I've really not seen any substantiated detail of what the changed conditions being proposed actually are. Can anyone show me them? Have they been published?

I don't believe what the Unions or TFL are saying quite honestly.

Incidentally, I think TFL are employing 100+ extra drivers to lessen the impact on existing staff.

That article is not saying anything particularly groundbreaking, is it? We know the reason they have better conditions than everyone else is because they have an almost unique ability to hold London to ransom. People are more questioning their over propensity to use it and whether something should be done about it.

Nothing should be done about it. We should not eb advocating for unions to be even more weakened.

Not all CEOs are on massive salaries. I am a CEO of,admittedly, very small company, and I earn £35K. I am also the business development manager and do both jobs for my salary, when it should be two different posts,both paid accordingly. But the company can't afford to pay for two people so I do both for one wage because its a job which I love and more money then JSA so I'm grateful for it.

I didn't realise they were paid that highly. Seems like a lot.

They are not hiring extra drivers. They recently promoted a batch of project pool drivers who will be moved around the combine as and when they are required and are there to cover drivers who are released to be trained on new trains. They are supposed to be given 28 days notice but if it's on the same line they have been given as little as two days notice that they now have to travel to the other end of the line. One of the proposals was that they be used to cover the night shifts but understandably it was deemed unfair for these guys to have to take on all the night turns without proper consultation.

According to your article, disappointedone no one in the UK can be overpaid (or underpaid, right?) because we're operating in a capitalist system so it's simply not possible. Am I getting that right? Do you actually agree with that?

I find it strange that people would rather see other salaries reduced than their own increased. And that the power of the strike is seen as a bad thing.

Yes it's bloody inconvenient but I'd suggest that your anger at this would be better directed at tfl management who are trying to impose extended hours/unsociable shifts on people who already have agreed working terms, than on the people who are upset at the imposition of those new terms.

Why should it be a race to the bottom? Or do you support reduced pay and longer hours across all sectors

So it's official, then - "race to the bottom" is the new MN meme.

Interesting blog post on RMT and driverless trains.

order-order.com/2015/08/12/driverless-trains-would-gut-the-feckless-rmt/#:hzB1LTzWznEzEA

The thing is three of the tube lines are already semi automated and the DLR has run without drivers since 1987.

Fully automated trains with a supervisory operator for emergencies and evacuations would reduce the training required and allow more people to apply for the job.

why should it be a race to the bottom? Or do you support reduced pay and longer hours across all sectors

This doesn't necessarily follow at all. It's perfectly possible to think that tube drivers have a good deal and are being unreasonable in striking but support others who you think have an unfair deal.

As I say, I think they are being unreasonable given what I've read but I'm very open to the idea that what I've read is misleading. On the other hand I'm not prepared to believe the unions 100% either.

I also think their salaries are a bit high but not ridiculous, but that they do try to perpetuate a closed shop for their own reasons. These things don't have to always be black and white.

Rmt doesn't represent the majority of drivers. Aslef is the drivers Union. Rmt represent most of the other grades.
I have no doubt that full automation is coming, but at nowhere near the rate they said and it won't be the strike-less paradise people think it will be.

I have no doubt that full automation is coming, but at nowhere near the rate they said and it won't be the strike-less paradise people think it will be.

What do you mean by this? Some other disruption will replace strikes, e.g maintenance?

There are plenty of other professions that could cause more damage by striking. Maybe the power that the tube drivers have is that withdrawing their services causes just enough disruption to be annoying, but not enough to be disastrous.