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AIBU?

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Original poster

Disgusted at the amount of people jealous of tube drivers pay

313 replies

Itsawd · 12/08/2015 18:35

They do a job dealing with the public, unsociable hours and god knows what when they get a jumper. We should congratulate them on doing well, not look at them with green eyes.

Its a free market so if anyone wants a job as one they are welcome to apply!

OP posts:
Queeltie · 13/08/2015 00:18

Bus driving has always been low paid. But it can be very stressful, and in London, there is always the risk of being attacked.

AyeAmarok · 13/08/2015 00:25

Why do train drivers need to be paid more than 90% of the population?

I refer you to my previous point:

Fourthly, tube drivers need to live in central London. So they need paid a decent wage to be able to do this.

Nurses/teachers/lecturers etc are more "mobile" throughout the country than the London Tube drivers. They can move north with their "good" salary and make it stretch a lot further. Tube drivers need to live a close enough distance from their depot so they can get there at 4am.

Yes, London needs nurses/teachers too. But if they en masse started leaving the capital in droves, then something would be done about it to entice people to stay, and wages would have to rise, ultimately.

They should use the wage tube drivers get as an example of what they want. Not force Tube drivers down to their (nationally set) wage in a race to the bottom.

LazyLohan · 13/08/2015 00:26

I think part of the thing with this strike is, yes, the tube drivers are probably in the right this time. The expectation of working hours is really unfair won't allow a good work life balance and is probably fairly avoidable too.

But that's exactly it. They're right this time. But unfortunately for them Londoners know that every other time they've been out they've been doing it for more money and holidays, screwing commuters over out of greed, or because they objected to who'd been elected into City Hall, or Bob Crowe thought it would be nice barbecue weather so they decided to have a day off.

I think if the public are unsupportive this time when they genuinely do have a grievance then they only have themselves to blame for inducing compassion fatigue with their constant strikes.

loveareadingthanks · 13/08/2015 00:28

Tube drivers - anyone can do it and why should they be paid very well? An ex of mine was an ex tube driver. It's a hard job and you are responsible for the lives of 100s of people at any one time. Can you imagine spending all day seeing nothing but tunnels and lights - boring, huh. But at the same time, you have to give 100% concentration because a driver error on speed or following light signals is likely to lead to an accident - a derailment, a crash, and death and injury to your passengers. Seriously, few people have the personality/skills to do that. I know I couldn't. After a bit I'd be off daydreaming and bang! Oops. Dead people.

And it's an awful environment, stuffy, artificial light, poor air, heat. Few of us would realistically want that all day.
And the reason he is an ex tube driver? 3 people committed suicide under his train and he couldn't take any more. You can say it wasn't his fault - but if someone jumped in front of your car, could you just shrug it off? It caused him serious psychological damage and he'll probably never completely get over it. He used to volunteer at Samaritans in a way to try and make up for what happened and the deaths he was unwillingly part of. Oh, and people don't usually die quickly as you might imagine. They are trapped, injured, under the wheels, screaming. It's going to haunt him forever. It's a type of industrial injury - a mental injury - that is pretty much unique to train driving.

I don't begrudge them a £ of their pay.

AyeAmarok · 13/08/2015 00:33

Agreed Love

And, to show train drivers don't get it all their own way, the government recently decided to pick on train drivers specifically and remove the criminal compensation payment (which was only about 6k I think) that drivers get if someone kills themselves under their train.

So now they get nothing, and may never be able to drive again due to the psychological trauma, whole career gone.

HuftysTrain · 13/08/2015 00:35

They have to live near their depots? I wasn't aware here were any tube depots in Chelsea? They're all well out of town and in affordable areas where plenty of people manage to survive on a lot less than a tube drivers salary. So that argument is ridiculous.

Also, you can't apply for a tube drivers' job unless you already work for LU. It's completely closed shop.

I am a Londoner and do not support the strikes. Nobody I know does.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 00:35

The thing that really bugs me is that it's always the greedy tube drivers who get the blame. 20,000 staff walked out and it's the 3000 drivers who are copping all the flack.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 00:39

Ha. Have to live near their depots. I spent 6 years travelling to the other side of london as that was where the vacancy was. 2 hours each way. Sometimes starting at 430am. That was fun. I live in one of the cheapest areas of london and our mortgage is massive. We can't sell up and move out further as it would be impossible to get to work at 430 or get home at 2am. We are very much tied to london.

almondcakes · 13/08/2015 00:42

So shouldn't all London workers be paid £50k then?

AyeAmarok · 13/08/2015 00:44

I wasn't aware here were any tube depots in Chelsea?

Do you think you can live in Chelsea on 49k?

And exactly TheMole! Plus, I thought ASLEF (the train drivers' union) wasn't participating in these strikes, its the rest of the Tube workers, and a few drivers who are in other unions? I'm sure I heard that on the news earlier.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 00:46

They should be paid more. London is bloody expensive.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 00:47

This is true. Aslef have suspended strike action as management have agreed to discuss the rostering instead of forcing them upon us.
If the others don't call off the strike then nothing will run though. I suppose that'll be drivers fault though.

almondcakes · 13/08/2015 00:48

But should they be paid £50K?

If tube drivers need 50k or they could not afford to live in London, is that not the case for all other occupations who need to live in London?

AyeAmarok · 13/08/2015 00:52

Sorry Mole, x-posts. I meant your second last post about the drivers taking the flack.

I just found this stat on train drivers:

Around 400 people apply for every Trainee Train Driver's vacancy. Only one - 0.25% - will succeed.

I don't think the numbers are anywhere near that for the other professions mentioned on this thread.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 00:52

no not everyone should be on 50k. Driver is a more senior role on the tube. Csas are on around 28 I think. Maybe 30k. They too have to live in or near London. Being tied to london attracts or should attract a premium to reflect how much more expensive it is here.

Queeltie · 13/08/2015 00:55

The reason you have so many people applying for each post, is because it is so well paid.

almondcakes · 13/08/2015 00:56

SO it isn't actually about being able to afford to live in London then? Like other jobs, it should attract a London weighting, but people in lower paid jobs with a London weighting do afford to live in London.

So why do tube drivers need to get paid more than 90% of the population?

If you are in the top 10%, people questioning your wage is not a race to the bottom.

AyeAmarok · 13/08/2015 00:57

Uh huh, and only the best make it through Hmm

But sure, it's piss-easy and anyone could do it.

cantstopreadingthenews · 13/08/2015 00:57

I think it that all essential public service workers should have strong unions. Fair pay and working conditions for all, but that eats into running costs and profits, which is why employers/institutions are not so keen. But it does not justify dragging down what are essentially 'mid-level and technical professions'.

As for the buses this why they have different operating companies to divide and rule - Ministry of Transport's bright idea.

I do know it is inconvenient all these strikes, but why isn't there more blaming of the Transport for London, and why are they not taking this to ACAS first. This is a failure of TfL management to negotiate properly, whilst looking to maintain a good service. I think they deliberately force the unions into a corner, where their main weapon is work to rule - which they then ignore; and then full strikes which benefit no-one.

It is a shame that the Labour party has forgotten it's roots, and are not showing some initiative like trying to mediate etc.

We all work in one way or another and should support each other's right to a fair deal and work-life balance. That's what the EU work legislation was about but, weirdly many well-paid senior management seem to have a problem with that applying to everyone else in their organisations.

HuftysTrain · 13/08/2015 00:59

Do you think you can live in Chelsea on 49k?

I think you misunderstood me. I was mocking the suggestion that tube drivers have to live in expensive areas of central London. They don't. The depots are not in expensive areas.

Maybe I didn't express myself well.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 01:01

Nobody is denying that drivers are well paid. After all it's why we spend all day in that dark dirty tin can. You make a choice. I chose to leave a job I loved to join the underground because I needed to make some money. I could never have afforded to move out from my parents house on my old wages. I'm grateful to have my job. But does that mean I should just take whatever crap management throw at me. Each new set of rosters makes the job a little bit worse. These new rosters make it a lot worse. But because we have the audacity to be reasonably well paid we are supposed to roll over. I don't think so.

AyeAmarok · 13/08/2015 01:05

Yes they are, there are plenty of depots in expensive areas. Not Chelsea, no, but that's not the only place in London where normal people struggle to be able to afford to live, if they aren't on a corporate lawyer or investment banker salary.

almondcakes · 13/08/2015 01:06

You aren't reasonably well paid. You are very well paid compared to almost everyone else.

I don't think you made a choice is an ethical justification for why there are such huge discrepancies in wages.

Themoleandcrew · 13/08/2015 01:07

Is like to know where this magical, non expensive part of london is please. I live in a cheap(er) area and we aren't exactly flush with cash. Despite my massive pay check.

Sapat · 13/08/2015 01:07

Since I earn half what they are paid, yet work for longer hours and trained for way longer and can't afford to live in London where I work and therefore commute daily, I find it REALLY hard to feel sorry for them. I wish striking was banned or was at least restricted. Time they woke up and smelt the roses. I think if you have really good work pay and conditions (and they do), they should have the good grace to count their lucky stars and shut the fuck up. Driver-less train all the way, that would solve their "terrible" conditions. Pure greed.