Disgusted at the amount of people jealous of tube drivers pay

[Itsawd]

They do a job dealing with the public, unsociable hours and god knows what when they get a jumper. We should congratulate them on doing well, not look at them with green eyes.

Its a free market so if anyone wants a job as one they are welcome to apply!

We had a tube driver come to canvass us before the election. For the Conservatives. Given his rant about how taxes are too high I think I can assume that he doesn't give a stuff about other public sector pay.

I will never understand why on these threads people begrudge others so much and moan that others wages should come down to match theirs

One reason is that we simply can't just pay everyone more. economics doesn't work like that. So, in order for this to be beneficial (i.e. artificially high wages that don't match the skill level) is for most people NOT to receive those wages and a select chosen get those wages.

The other complaint is that jobs are not advertised to the public. inherent in that it seems that merit (i.e. are you actually qualified for this job?) is essentially not a criterion.

So, you have a closed shop system with a certain group with massively inflated wages that don't match their skill set. of course, those high wages don't come for free. We all pay for them, including people who don't have access to such high paying jobs. Couple that with strikes being crazily inconvenient for 8 million people, I think the mystery of why people are resentful has to be considered solved.

I am just pissed off that more people don't get off their arses and join and participate in union activities. That way they might all get better terms and conditions instead of being shat on from a great height by the old Etonians.

I'm in a teaching Union. It's always great fun on here when we exercise our right to strike...

Teacher's salaries are not high compared to the amount of training required and you don't have to get a job as a dinner lady before you can apply for a job as a teacher.

Old school tie or closed shop - it's all jobs for the boys.

There are plenty of people who would happily do a teacher's job on 10 or even 20k less. It would suit them perfectly, no unsociable hours, no having to find childcare for the holidays.

Does that mean teachers should all work for 18k?

AyeAmarok
"There are plenty of people who would happily do a teacher's job on 10 or even 20k less. It would suit them perfectly, no unsociable hours, no having to find childcare for the holidays."

Thus proving that you don't know anything about what the job entails.

I do know what the job entails, thanks

My point is that loads of people who are not teachers would happily do it for a lot less.

I'd say you clearly don't know what being a train driver entails.

Another poster previously said that a bus driver is much more difficult a job than a train driver. I think most people would disagree with that too.

Ayaamrarok

"I'd say you clearly don't know what being a train driver entails."

Already posted that up thread, might help if you RTFT

"I do know what the job entails, thanks"

You obviously don't know what teaching involves or ou wouldn't post such BS as:-

"no unsociable hours, no having to find childcare for the holidays."

On the face of it driving a bus is more difficult than driving a tube because of the interaction with the public and unpredictability of driving on a road compared to driving on a track. Maybe driving a tube is more unpleasant than driving a bus, but it isn't obvious that it is harder.

There may be plenty of people who would like to be a teacher for £18k. There aren't many people with the required skills who would be prepared to be a teacher for £18k.

There are plenty of people who would happily do a teacher's job on 10 or even 20k less

Given teachers starting salaries are around the £20k mark, how the hell do you think people would be willing to take a £10k or £20k pay cut

If teachers had a 20k pay cut, the average primary school teacher would be below the national minimum wage.

If tube drivers had a 20k pay cut, they would still earn more than most people.

Even the Labour Party agree that the left are economically illiterate.
No wonder all the Tories are behind Corbyn!

Because I'm clearly not talking about starting salaries here, that's why. How many teachers do you know on 20k?

There are lots of jobs that are well paid and have short training periods and don't require academic qualifications. Train drivers elsewhere in the country train for a year and start on less than 20k. Air Traffic Controllers, 6 months training then they quickly work up to 50k (they also have effective unions, note), oil rig workers (the non-engineers, obviously), that's just off the top of my head. Police, for another.

Everyone thinks their job is harder than a train drivers. I think I would very quickly be able to learn to drive a bus. They don't go that fast, you don't need to plan when you're going to brake miles in advance, you can stop quickly.

Dealing with the public doesn't really phase me (been there, done that). I can count change from fares. If you break down another bus comes along and takes your passengers and other cars and buses can drive round you, you don't block the entire line. You don't need to get out and fix your bus in a hot dark and dangerous tunnel while under pressure because people are trapped until you do. If you knock someone over people will be about to help and you'll get help quicker than the train driver, on his own in the tunnel. Train drivers have to learn routes too, and they change. And they are accountable when they are late and get in trouble. And they also are a mistake away from losing their job, a massive amount of pressure. If a bus driver overshoots his stop by a few metres it's not the end of the world. Train Driver does that? Disciplinary.

See? It's easy to pull apart a job as being a pile of piss when you've never done it.

Yes and if the average Tube worker who is actually going on strike took a pay cut of 20k they would too.

But for some reason despite the fact the drivers are not striking and not complaining about pay AT ALL - they just don't want their terms changed - they are getting the blame.

The difference is that salaries for other jobs are subject to market forces because anybody with the required skills and qualifications can apply.

www.nats.aero/careers/trainee-air-traffic-controllers/how-to-apply/

Ayemarock

I know how easy it is to pull apart a job, you have already done it with teaching in a pp.

I wouldn't be a tube train driver, I wouldn't want to be in the dark all day.

Is my job harder than a train drivers, How do you even start to compare the two jobs? they are not even close.

Half of what you say is similar for most jobs (targets, dealing with people, time limiting factors etc.), some of what is left is job specific, the other bits are just made up.

AyeAmaroK

"But for some reason despite the fact the drivers are not striking and not complaining about pay AT ALL - they just don't want their terms changed - they are getting the blame."

Change drivers to teachers and thy have something else in common.

I have worked in a company (private sector, finance) where they only promoted from within. And a job at grade 2 in X department had very little to do with a grade 3 in Y department. But that's how they did it. So Tube drivers aren't the only job that happens in.

And for example, Joe Public can apply to be a train driver where I live (Scotland), but you're less likely to make it through if you haven't got experience of the railway, because someone who has been a ticket collector will know a lot more about what is needed to drive a train than someone who hasn't.

But even with that, you still need to make it through all the aptitude testing, reaction testing and several interviews, and then the training of a year or more.

So Tube drivers aren't the only job that happens in

Doesn't make it right though.

youngest tube driver was (is still a suspect due to insurance etc,) 18

Aye

Bus training is 6m then reviews and further training 3x a year.
Regular drug tests, reaction time tests, danger awareness tests.

You might NOT be the sort of person who can remember 30+ ever changing routes. Have you tried it?

Buses stop more quickly than trains, obviously, but not as quickly as you seem to think, or no-one would ever be hit stepping out, would they?

Lots of people can 'deal with the public'. But not many want needles/guns/vomit/spit/punching for £23K.

'I can count change from fares'. Well, good for you. Bit more to bus driving than that. ie it being a fireable offence if the money is short/ full of foreign coins etc that you've not checked as you have a fight going on / need to move your bus out of way of emergency vehicles on main street of capital city. Do buses break down and stop the whole of Princes Street - yes. Do they get stuck - yes. Does 'control' send you down alternative streets when traffic works without checking those streets are not dead-end / low bridge so you have to do a 13 point turn in a double decker in City traffic - yes. Are you then on a disciplinary for being late - yes.

If a bus driver overshoots his stop is it a Disciplinary - you bet, esp when Control are there with a clipboard.

They are different jobs obviously, but comparable.
I am correcting your mistakes - knowing H's company / experience as I do.

Of course you are more likely to get a job if you have relevant experience internally. However your market rate will be governed by the ease with which you could be replaced externally.

Where there is limited opportunity to recruit externally because of artificially created circumstances, a true market rate cannot exist.

I have already said Boney that I have no problem with teachers not wanting their current terms reduced.

And I haven't pulled apart teaching AT ALL. I said they don't work overnight or school holidays (in the main, yes I know there are occasionally days were they do, but you're splitting hairs there and it won't help your point).

There are benefits to teaching, school holidays are one. You're entitled to them. You deserve them. Most people would love them, and your salary. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get what you do. Or that anyone can be a teacher.

Just like not everyone can be a train driver.

And I didn't make anything up

See? It's easy to pull apart a job as being a pile of piss when you've never done it.

but you don't need to pull the job apart to see that they are being overpaid. the way to test is to advertise openly. If you get tons of applicants, then it is probably a desirable job, and my guess with tube drivers that desirable part will be pay.