To think if we eat and adopted some of the lifestyle of the europeans we would not be the fattest country in Europe.

[WonderWendy1]

I went on a med cruise two weeks ago we stopped in Portugal, Spain, South Of France and Italy.

I think of myself as a fairly fit size 12 (14 in some things). I would say i'm on the slimmer side in the Uk. I go to these european cities and the women (and men) are much slimmer then me and dh.

I was then in Paris for a few nights a week ago and I can only say my gosh nearly everywomen I saw had the legs of Taylor Swift.

Aibu to think we need to be doing what the europeans do to avoid becoming the American country of Europe.

Thanks Worra Thats very kind.

Going back a good few posts, but the social contagion thing that babyganoush mentioned is a big factor. I think it's been proven that if your spouse or best friend is fat, you're more likely to shrug and think, oh, top me up and I'll have chips with that second glass of wine.

(oooh, that sounds tempting).

American studies have shown that that (fat spouse, fat best friend) more than income level, proximity to a gym, education etc.... they are the best predictors of which slim people will end up fat in five years (or maybe it was ten).

The studies were from Stanford University (in Boston?) I think if anybody is interested.

I think there is correlation with smoking. My mother was a teeny six six until she was 38, then she gave up smoking and very quickly became a size 14. I'm not saying smoking = thin, not smoking = fat but smoking definitely kept her thin.

I find threads like this fascinating. As a nation we have been sleepwalking into bigger and bigger clothes. You hear so much these days about diabetes, and recently when I had to attend fracture clinic with my mum she was praised for being on no medications at the age of 58. The dr even asked "what, not even statins?"

It is socially acceptable to have a large waistline, even when we know about all the health complications that arise from being larger and not active.

That French school menu looks amazing. I think the french in particular just take such a different attitude to their bodies.

I was a fat kid. Our school dinners were disgusting (smash, gristly luncheon meat, cheap sugary baked beans followed by a syrup sponge pud and custard). We were made to clear our plates or we couldn't go out to play. As an adult I will not turn around and blame this attitude for any lack of control I experience around food, but merely feel sad that such an institutionally fucked up attitude surrounds nourishment to the extent that we balk at the idea of eating wholesome meals at a leisurely pace. (That's quite garbled, I hope it makes sense).

I have been a slim, active adult too. The main differences between slim me and heavy me are what I felt like eating - home made vs processed - and how easy I found it to make myself walk that mile to uni instead of getting on a bus. Once eating proper food and walking were habit I didn't want to do the other stuff anymore. I never played sports or went to the gym. I lost 2 stone 8 without trying!

AmIFat Stanford is in California, was it Harvard?

I'll have to google that later. I referenced it in a social studies assignment years ago. they followed a group of people for over 20 years. I have in my mind that it was in the Boston area. So it must be the university I'm wrong about. Sorry for providing half a piece of information

There definitely is a correlation with smoking rates. Smoking increases metabolic rate. It also supresses appetite and replaces some food for some people.
On balance though, smoking has bigger health implications than obesity.
I gained weight when I stopped smoking. It became much harder to lose weight (though that wasn't the only factor).

Plonky you are so right that it's become too acceptable to have a larger waistline. I often mention the fat acceptance movement because among my friends and acquaintances so many women have become evangelical about it. My Facebook feed is constantly full of Tess Holiday and fat bloggers... All I see in those photos is the huge waistlines and health problems in their futures.

I've lost 22 lbs this year after gaining weight in the past two years and getting into overweight BMI band for the first time in my life. I'm now well within a heathy BMI and feel and look so much better. And have learnt to eat in a way that should help me avoid gaining weight again.

I actually think most diets fail because they don't teach people that it's ok to feel hungry. If you're having "healthy" snacks and all sorts of "free" foods on the diet, it's so easy to slip back into old habits again.

There definitely is a correlation with smoking rates.

I agree.
When giving up addictions, unless things are managed correctly, you just replace one addiction with another.

Not so long ago, round about 50% of the adult population smoked! That's a lot, and I'm convinced that's part of the reason people look so slim in old photos.
I know when I used to smoke, I would very often have a cig instead of a biscuit. I would still eat biscuits and cakes, but in lesser amounts.

I agree that being fat is not as bad for you as smoking. It would be horrible if people started to smoke again.
But I find it strange that hardly any of the Health Police mention the correlation between smoking levels going down and obesity levels going up.

I'd just like to add to the point about being 'socially acceptable to have a larger waist' that plonkysaurus made.
The hourglass shape (with a small defined waist) is naturally rare. Many women used to fake it with girdles and various foundation garments .I don't think that actually made people any healthier, it just made them look a certain way.
I can remember clothes being made to fit the hourglass figure which in reality few women have. If you didn't have a small waist (10-12'' smaller than your hips and bust) clothes didn't fit. You were fat, according to the clothes industry. I never have had a waist like that ,no matter how slim and fit I have been, and I'm thankful I don't have to conform to that pressure any more.

A teeny hourglass shape might be rare.
But women are supposed to have at least some waist, (smaller than their hip size)
and the worrying thing is, the amount of younger females nowadays who don't have a waist at all!
I can understand older women finally giving up their waists to middle aged spread, which is not their fault. Although having said that, I know a lot of older women who have managed to keep their small waists.
But to have rolls of fat in place of a waist when you are still young and of child-bearing age is not really healthy.

Conversely, you also get the opposite, where in addition to the loss of actual waist, women who store plenty on hips and backside, and then talk about their curves. Curves to me mean actual healthy size curvy body shape, not the current hijacking of the word to mean anybody overweight.

The issue is snacking. You don't actually have to eat much extra to get fat over a few years.
And so many children and young adults snack all the time, that they must have forgotten what being hungry really feels like.

I agree about snacking, also less activity/exercise and more fizzy drinks and alcohol.

Thing is, body shape is largely controlled by genetics. Your waistline is also, but can be more readily determined by what you choose to eat, and how you choose to use your body. If you decide to eat normal food (by normal, I do not mean lots of fast/processed food, but a balanced diet) and run a marathon every weekend, you might still have curves (boobs and hips) but you will be lean and have a small waist. But you might also be straight up and down. By eating food appropriate to your levels of activity, and getting all the essential vitamins and minerals, your body will look as it should look.

Sitting on your arse eating things that barely resemble real food, gaining a few rolls around your tummy and then remarking on how you're a real woman because you have curves is not the same thing. Those curves are fat. Trust me, mine are currently hidden under fat. It's because I'm pregnant, and despite trying to eat healthily the volume of food I'm eating is definitely more than usual. I hate it, I'm under no illusion about it.

I do have a problem with Tess Holiday and her fat crusade. I admire her confidence but when others who are more sensitive about their looks see her success as an excuse/reason to carry on, they are merely setting themselves up for an early grave. And this is acceptable on a societal level. It's dangerous.

Yy re real women. I'm not an illusion. That saying fucks me off. The opposite of thin is fat, not curvy.
My friend had killer curves at an old fashioned size 8 with the waist taken in a large amount. In theory I could gain 5 stone on my hips and bum so there was a larger difference between hips and waist than now. I wouldn't suddenly be curvy, just fat.

Fat has become normal, imo that is a big part of the problem.
By normal I mean that the average person has excess body fat to an extent which has a negative effect on health.
We tend to unthinkingly equate normal with good or optimal, we feel that if everyone is like us then we must be ok.
As levels of obesity rise the pressure to take measures to counteract it drops off, if everyone is fat then being fat comes to seem inevitable.

As for flat stomachs, even otherwise slim people have belly fat, not only are we getting fatter the fat is migrating to the middle.

I honestly can't see how this can be turned around ?

It can be turned around suzanne, but it requires mass action. A wholesale change on a societal level from the instant gratification we find in the bakery aisle to the delayed gratification of a decent meal when you're properly hungry because you've waited hours to eat. I honestly do think the way things are done in French institutions, like the school menu plan linked upthread, is a viable solution.

So many adults simply do not know how to feed themselves. That's why low fat diet foods are so successful. Some people actually do think a Special K bar is a better breakfast than a couple of eggs, because they've never had healthy eating modelled to them, and they can't model it to their own children. And schools don't model it, workplaces expect you to wolf lunch down while you're still working, we snack on whatever's convenient when we can because we don't take the time to understand just how important lunch is.

Going back a few pages...

TalkinPeace
How do thin people eat then?

all of my lean friends at the gym and through my life have to watch what they eat
constantly

Firstly, I was talking about being healthy/healthy weight, rather than thin. I doubt there is a set formula for how people of a healthy weight eat, but I think that a healthy relationship with food includes a system of regulation that is at least partly internalised - so that you aren't constantly having to exert willpower and feel that you are denying yourself what you would really like to eat.

Worra
We live in a free country and unless that changes, or we become a complete Nanny state, people will have to take responsibility for themselves and what they consume.

The government, without being a nanny state, could provide opportunities that make healthy living easier. Accessible/free sport and exercise opportunities; access to healthy living expertise (?from the NHS) - proactive as well as reactive; including more cooking/healthy living stuff on the school curriculum.

I think public facilities could be vastly improved to encourage active lifestyles. If I want to spend a morning at a decent (free) park with lots of climbing stuff etc for my child, I have to drive a good 10 miles. Hmm.

Obviously in theory it can be turned around Plonky
obviously it is possible, it doesn't seem very probable though.
Afaik being obese causes various changes which make it difficult to return to and maintain a healthy body composition.

The stats for people who drop significant amounts of body fat and keep it off are not good.

Have any other countries been able to reverse the trend of ever increasing obesity? ?