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to find the martyr level here surprising?

93 replies

achieve6 · 10/08/2015 11:58

I love MN but I'm honestly shocked at posts saying things like

  1. I do (insert list of 100 items) for him but he does nothing for me, what should I do

  2. I am being taken advantage of financially but want to buy a magic wand rather than sort it out or leave

    I might need a break from MN already. I think my blood pressure is going up. I don't know women like this in real life. The odd one in my 20s...but not now. Maybe because I don't have the tolerance.
OP posts:
achieve6 · 10/08/2015 17:35

Thanks again to those who have seen my point and not conflated it with abuse

To the poster going on about race, I'm not white and I think you've brought in a straw man there.

Jupiter, it is highly ironic that you call me harsh. Your response on your own thread was one of the reasons I posted this. When offered support, you accused posters like me of being selfish, not in so many words but I bet you know what I mean.

I'm not special. I haven't achieved much in my life though I'm trying. I have two chronic health conditions, I have had times when I've wondered who will look after me.

But I'm a human being and entitled to a basic level of respect. Anyone who hasn't shown me that gets shown the door. I'm never going to apologise for that or regret it.

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 10/08/2015 18:06

Why is it a 'straw man' to claim women's domestic oppression an oppression and thus a political issue and from there to draw analogies with other political movements - especially with political issues that are seeking to traverse the boundary between being perceived as individual, personal problems (requiring individual solutions) and being perceived as structural issues, affecting groups and requiring piticsl action?

Why should that logical/linguistic/political move be disbarred in this instance.

Political struggle often -very often- moves forward by analogy: groups claim identity, political subjectivity and rights by claiming their RIGHT to a cognitive, political and social analogy.

There is nothing 'straw man' about my analogy.

I think you and I are simply disagreeing. I say that it is facile to call women 'martyrs' because it closes down the fact that there is a structural power imbalance -still- in the result ions between men and women.

I say that's net is a place where you see the individual voices -saying similar things -come together in a mosaic. Hence your ability to say 'martyrs' plural.

I say it is quite a thing for so many women's voices to be diversely represented.

I say it is a testament to the fact that this is a structural issue, requiring piticsl, not personal, solution.

We're not there yet. Have we asked for legislation around housework? No. We still don't see it as legitimately political. But who knows?

I say it reminds me of the mosaic I have seen on social media this year around the issue of police violence in America. I have found that anger-inducing and heartening.

One clear point if analogy is the intersection between a section of media and the wider, more powerful media.

Another point of analogy is the importance of singular voice becoming a group. Without losing it's singularity - the mosaic effect.

Another point of analogy is the sheer joy thst people experience as they create their own words to name their experience, and realise it is a shared language . And the power that brings.

I really don't think I can be any clearer as to my point.

Please don't patronise me by putting my thoughts in a - mislabelled - box and implying my intent is malicious.

I have accorded you the respect of engaging and accepting that I simply disagree with you. Frankly, I think you need to read a few more books. I hope you will respond with the same courtesy.

thecatfromjapan · 10/08/2015 18:07

That should read: groups and individuals claim rights by claiming analogy with groups already afforded those rights.

thecatfromjapan · 10/08/2015 18:15

Sorry - that was more bad-tempered than it needed to be. It's just that 'I don't get what you're saying,' 'You are being irrational,' and 'This isn't the appropriate place to talk abou this.' Has been used to shut women (and other groups,) up for a long, long time.

I have a distinction at masters level in politicsl theory and it even managed to shut me up, doesn't it?

So I'm taking you up on it for all those women who are even more trampled on by society than me.

It is great that you have such confidence. But why do you want to use that confidence to dump on the women of mumsnet?

Or of you think we really are sweet blancmange a who will allow you to come out with complete bulldhit because that's what mothers are supposed to do?

lostinikea · 10/08/2015 18:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 10/08/2015 18:20

Off the top of my head, 'The Alchemy of Race and Rights' is a really engaging, easy read about what it means to change the fabric of epistemology to permit new identities and concepts to the region of 'truth'.

A heavy concept, true, but that is what you are talking about her, with this thread. So you might as well spend an hour of your life reading what this thoughtful woman has written on the issue.

Owllady · 10/08/2015 18:21

Unfortunately I only have a textiles degree but I least I have my hypocrisy award :o

achieve6 · 10/08/2015 18:23

Thecat, I don't have your political knowledge so we will have to agree to disagree

I reject the racial stuff that many app,y to me so I may be rejecting a lot of women's stuf as well

I was expressing surprise at what I see here vs what I see in real life

I have zero confidence
I dint have any reasons to be confident

I'm just surprised by what I see here. I'm entitled to say it. Posters are entitled to disagree.

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 10/08/2015 18:25

Pmed you.

thecatfromjapan · 10/08/2015 18:26

I think I have my seriously pissed off mum award now.

ninetynineonehundred · 10/08/2015 18:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ninetynineonehundred · 10/08/2015 18:51

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SurlyCue · 10/08/2015 19:02

Sadly i know a fucking tonne of women in relationship like that OP. Not sure if it is relevant that i am in NI where things are still a bit backward on the feminist front. My mum is a proper martyr but somehow managed to instil in me enough self confidence to be able to say no to relationships i wasnt happy in. I do wonder if that is why i seem to be long term single however i am far happier than i was in any of the relationships i was in.

achieve6 · 10/08/2015 19:20

Surly, thank you for answering the question. It saddens me to hear that you know so many, but glad you are enjoying single life.

Ninety, my mother was that mother too!

I didn't ask "why" in my OP though. That's a whole other thread.

I was comparing MN to my experience of real life. I do realise there will be disproportionate numbers of these posts but I am really surprised at the sheer number of them.

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achieve6 · 10/08/2015 19:25

Ninety, for whom has my thread caused difficulties? I'm cinfused.

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Sazzle41 · 10/08/2015 19:48

A lot of those people havent got the self worth to think they could be treated better or find anyone any better OP, or, even scarier survive alone. Which is probably why those kind of partners picked them in the first place. They know they will always have the upper hand with a partner who doesnt value herself much. We ought to follow the US who after a string of very public and nasty DV incidents with teen 'star' football players and girlfriends started a compulsory schools programme about relationships.

achieve6 · 10/08/2015 19:50

Sazzle, that sounds a good idea.

OP posts:
LoveThatNameDoIt · 10/08/2015 19:53

Best thing I ever learned (from my mother who survived a debilitating abusive couple of decades at the hands of my father); there but for the grace of God, go I.

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