to be horrified at the behaviour in bohunt school

[SEsofty]

Just watched the programme about Chinese teachers in uk. Whilst I appreciate that it is reality tv and thus exaggeration for effect I was still horrified with the apparent number of children who were talking in class.

I'm not that accident and went to a very normal school but talking whilst teacher did simply didn't happen. I don't agree with the Chinese methods but talking whilst someone is trying to teach you is simply rude.

Also WRT lessons - we are not entertainers. Students have to learn, especially when they are getting to Y9 that somethings just have to be done, whether they are interesting / exciting or not. Are employers meant to make the dull and routine bits of jobs interesting? Maybe thats why I constantly have to negotiate round groups of chatting teenager "workers" in the supermarket because to expect them to stack shelves for a full shift would be an imposition! Of course there is a balance but when it gets to the higher end of secondary and there are exam syllabus' to get through, I can't spend three lessons role playing or "exploring" a concept when I can teach it in one by more traditional methods. Kids have to learn as they come up through school the skill of sitting and listening - and yes, not talking when the teacher is talking is a basic starting point. I absolutely refuse to do teach - just stop dead, glare at whoever it is and wait. The rest of them shut the kid up pretty quick because they know the lesson will run over into break / lunch whatever otherwise.

I'm often a bit baffled on here by the number of people who seem to believe that lessons should be fun and never 'boring' and pupils are justifiable on acting up if anything is boring.

Isn't there a whole swath of knowledge that is not very interesting but still important to learn? And isn't the process of acquiring the basics of anything likely to be boring before you get to the stuff that's complex enough to be really interesting? I think it's pretty poor preparation for life and proper learning skills to instil the belief that learning is always fun and if it isn't you can skip that bit.

I enjoyed this programme and was not surprised. Two reasons:

1. Suspect showing off for the camera +++
2. Only slightly worse than at my average comp during mid 1990s.

I assume the old fashioned lecture type teaching works in china because the punishments are much greater and the kids are just used to it from when they are little. Also in classes that are that huge i can see the limitations of other options eg more individual teaching, discussion etc - obv solution to this though!

Luckily he wasn't a weak teacher RedDaisy or he would have found there was little difference!

A weak teacher is nothing to do with boring or exciting lessons.

Oh ignore Red, she's a wind up merchant.

Still fascinated to know which decade CookieDoughKid is talking about.

I was roaring at the cliche 'what's the point of learning this when are we ever going to use it' line. Every school, private and state, has the kid who says this. (I bet even in China).

My cynicism with these programmes is always the motivation of the teachers/head. The kids are pretty much lambs to slaughter but the head must have an agenda/cv/ego.

Every teacher dreams of a Musharif movement a la Educating Yorkshire. The thing is at some point in the programme that will happen - perhaps not as dramatically as overcoming a stammer, but the reality is that in most every school the joy of kids understanding a lesson, peer support, overcoming an obstacle etc, does happen, and because people generally seem to think teens are disengaged and disinterested, (unless they have been excluded for having blue hair in which case the DM labels them 'harddoneby'), it will seem all the sweeter.

I haven't seen the tv show.
I went to a better state school in a wealthier city in a wealthier US state in the 70s-80s.
In the lower sets, the teacher's had constant low-key battle to keep discipline.
So the OP's description kind of rings true as completely normal to me.

I don't know, but Brits seem so sheltered!!

"I was roaring at the cliche 'what's the point of learning this when are we ever going to use it' line. Every school, private and state, has the kid who says this. (I bet even in China)"

Absolutely not, merrylegs. I have it on good authority that only children in comprehensives ever say anything like that. While throwing chairs, dragging their knuckles and ruthlessly bullying any child with an IQ of over 100 who ended up there by mistake.

My school experience:

Whilst teacher was teaching...

Routinely-a daily occurence:
Kids hanging out window chatting to other kids.

Talking over teacher.

Kids swearing at teacher/eachother.

Asking continually to go to loo... Often 5 or 6 kids leaving at same time. Then returning noisily.

Continually asking eachother /teacjer for pens/rubber/ruler.

Throwing spitballs at eachother /teacher.

Kids swinging against wall of hut... Several kids then disappear thru large hole in wall..

I learnt nothing... This was standard comprehensive. This ridiculous disruption only stopped when we were streamed. I left this behind. My poor pals who were less able suffered this for the rest of their school career.

This was 35 years ago...

I think that these days this is normal in secondary school. I went into secondary schools to do mental health awareness sessions. Even though there were a lot of workshop-type activities some of the kids were very rude and disruptive. The biggest part of the job was getting them to listen at all and they spoiled it for the kids that were clearly interested. This was in an ordinary rural area-neither deprived nor affluent.
Things had certainly changed dramatically since I was at school in the 60s. I didn't particularly like the Chinese way of teaching but I don't like to think of my grandchildren being in a class where they either can't learn because other kids are disruptive or learn to be disrespectful themselves. I do think its a problem.
I am also concerned about whether consent was actually sought from the parents and teenagers for them to appear in this programme. Some of the kids were very exposed in a way that I didn't like at all.

It is not about boring or entertaining lessons but how pupils learn. In the UK teachers use a variety of techniques in order to allow all pupils to learn effectively. It was clear that the technique of expecting pupils to apply information without truly understanding it caused some confusion amongst some pupils. They are used to developing their understanding before applying the knowledge, it takes time to adjust to such a change.
Also they were clearly a mixed, large group so initially were adapting to that. Because Bohunt sets the pupils less able would struggle with the initial pace. Also they would be with pupils they have never been taught with before and this creates some social tensions.
I found it very interesting although the subjects being taught were limited. I wonder how literature could be taught this way.

No need to worry about that at Bohunt, drudge- have you seen their results?

At my DDS average state comp there is great discipline

No phones allowed at school AT ALL (if anyone needs to bring one in they have to be put in a box in the school office, anyone seen with a mobile has it confiscated until the end of term)

Anyone being disruptive is sent out, if they do it again they are sent to "the top corridor"" where the staff room and senior staff offices are. They are then in big trouble.

Swearing is not allowed.

Anyone misbehaving very badly is put in the isolation classroom. They have lunch and breaks at different times to everyone else and have to complete their work on their own.

I'm just saying all this so people dont get the idea that all state schools have shit discipline.

Obviously the kids were playing to the cameras. Cameras and a production company in a school makes for disruption. The school gets good results and that is what matters. Honestly how much extra make up was applied "for the camera". before filming, that alone is disruptive plus the extremely clever editing makes for a pre-detrrmined snapshot of a school.
I went to a private boarding school, (you know that one in the west country) and the rules rules and more rules made us all rebel. We got good grades but we all hated the place and would sneak out at night whenever we could. We were teenagers growing up, not machines.so we got up to all sorts to let of steam.

I live nowhere near Bohunt so have no idea about their academic results but the kids seem as rude as anywhere else. I wouldn't like to go back to kids being afraid of teachers and afraid of questioning things but part of education is surely to learn some respect. I would rather kids learned good manners and social skills and got Bs than learned to flounce and moan if things didn't suit them and acheived A*s

I've just watched it on iplayer with dd.

She is in year 7.

She said that the disruption was way more severe than at her school. They are in sets for some subjects. But not all. She said that in mixed ability and in streamed classes, the disruption would not be tolerated at all. She named a couple of girls who had tendency to behave a bit like Sophie in the cocky talking back sense, but also said that they are firstly not as extreme and secondly, are dealt with very quickly if they become disruptive.

She goes to a single sex secondary comprehensive, although a high achieving outstanding one.

I strongly suspect that the kids are acting up for the cameras on top of testing untested teachers in a way that tends to happen with supply teachers.

I am in no doubt that there is a huge amount of engineering going on by the directors/producers of programmes like this eg editing, encouraging play to the camera, selecting "characters", to make it more interesting.

However, a number of posters, myself included, have stated that this level of disruption does happen in real school environments where there are no cameras to play to.

What depresses me is the lack of manners and respect I see in a number of children in DS's class. Weirdly, children in other years seem to have more respect although they have had the same teachers. Most of this must come from home. DS's class had a supply teacher the other month. He made it clear from the outset he did not like being talked over and if any child was fiddling about or chatting whilst he was talking, they were made to sit on the floor, so had nothing to fiddle with and no-one to talk to. Cue a number of parents coming in to talk to the Head as they felt the punishment was too harsh and the children hadn't been given enough warnings before given the sanction . Teachers should not have to spend their time teaching manners.

What interests me is that China and Finland which are at the opposite ends of the spectrum for teaching methods etc both do very well in the education league tables. But one thing they do have in common is that from a very early age children are taught by their parents to respect their teachers. We need this respect in our schools.

Exactly bakeoffcake mine went to a similar state comprehensive.

The parents must have had to give permission. I work with schools doing workshops- we like photos to publise it - but we have to get permission and many parents don't give it for just a photo, so it is inconceivable that they were in that programme without permission.

It parents don't respect teachers ineedaholidaynow you only have to see the teacher bashing threads on MN!

Another thing that no one's mentioned is that the class of 50 children were mixed from the full range of Bohunt's sets - you heard one of the Chinese teachers saying that some were learning the BTEC syllabus and some were top set IGCE.

When the small group went off to have the trig explained by their normal teacher, I was half expecting him to refuse to help so that his 'team' won.

I think we were pedalled a myth about children being punished at home if they misbehaved at school. I certainly believed it until I saw some school log books from early 20th century. That was not always the case.

"I live nowhere near Bohunt so have no idea about their academic results"

Good lord- I had no idea that some people's Internet was so very..local. Mine isn't- I can find out about all sorts of things that are miles and miles from where I live............