to be horrified at the behaviour in bohunt school

[SEsofty]

Just watched the programme about Chinese teachers in uk. Whilst I appreciate that it is reality tv and thus exaggeration for effect I was still horrified with the apparent number of children who were talking in class.

I'm not that accident and went to a very normal school but talking whilst teacher did simply didn't happen. I don't agree with the Chinese methods but talking whilst someone is trying to teach you is simply rude.

Do you work in education Narrative ? Being a much older (retired teacher) I watch in amazement as the ideology goes around in circles and I can't think of any period with so much change.

I go into schools now and am glad to be out of teaching as I now get told the latest new initiative.

A question for Vanilla - do you have personal experience of teaching mixed ability maths lessons for a whole class?

I had time off teaching in 1980 for a few years. It was easy to come back - computers were about the only change. I had more time off in 1989 and when I wanted to go back the changes were so great I had to go and do a return to teaching course. From then on it was 'change, change, change' and it hasn't stopped!

My DCs were all taught in non-differentiated and non-set classrooms from age 4 to age 13/14. It is easily and usefully done even with great differences in ability.

Not in maths it isn't.

mehit I teach at tertiary level and visit lots of state schools as part of the widening access scheme.

As I say I do think there had been too much change in methodology, which teachers have faced quite bravely.

But ideological change? No.

The current ideas were formed before the Blair administration and first implemented by that administration ( with the best of intentions).

But sadly many objectives were never reached. And anyway the world is a totally different place. Technology, culture, society in the UK and around the globe have pressed on at ( alarming) speed.

The ideas behind state education in the UK need updating IMVHO.

For those who are arguing that it is impossible to teach primary maths to everyone at the same pace: that is how they do it in Finland, and Finland also has good maths results. From what I understand, Finnish teachers have also tended to stick to more traditional teaching methods, with little to no group work, textbooks/workbooks and whole class teaching.

I will agree totally on your last point Narrative - the purpose of education is a good starting place.

I have been mulling it over in my morning run.
My DS started school able to add numbers in his head. No one taught him- he just could. Does this mean he sits in classes where they place 5 counters on number 5? If it does then you have one child who is bored rigid from day one at school. If it doesn't it means that he has moved on and is hugely ahead of many by the juniors. Some will have caught him up but some will still be using their fingers at 7 yrs.
You wouldn't do it with reading - if a 4 yr old starts reading chapter books you don't put them on a reading scheme. Why is Maths different?

I fail to know how they do it kesstrel . I remember in 1957 , in the infants, adding and subtracting in yrds, ft and ins- and the incomprehension that you were dealing with bases of 12 and 3 rather than 10. I understood it perfectly and can remember the sheer boredom of the repetition. I had pages of sums with ticks so it looked good- I just didn't need to have done them all.

I must admit that instinct is always going to veer towards separate teaching by attainment/ability.

My DC were placed in early sets and only benefited. Ditto sending my DS to a highly selective school at 13.

Whilst I am always open to learning from other educational systems, I do think one of the biggest problems for the UK is that we are not in the same place industrially as many 'successful' systems.

That said, we are very far from where we were when the current system was dreamed up, so summat needs to change.

Am I really the only person on this thread interested in the liberal arts?

I remember teaching long decision before you got the 'new' methods of 'chunking'. I thought it easier just to teach them all from the blackboard (yr5). I remember a girl standing outside my door at lunchtime and hear her say to a friend in another class 'we are doing these long sums that just go on and on'!
Some got it quickly but it is very difficult for others. A pointless waste of time to keep going over examples for those who had got it, or doing pages and pages of 'sums'. Therefore I gave them real life problems to solve using it while I kept teaching the rest. However, you are already away from the teaching together.
Nothing wrong in starting a topic together but I fail to see how you keep together after the first day on it- or the first 2 days.

I think we have established that if they bother with them in China we don't know how they do it BR!
One of my links explained that the government is obsessed with maths because it is measureable and easy to measure.

Another problem with whole class Maths is that some lack the reading skills to go with it.

long division my auto correct has it's own ideas!

I don't know why I'm bothering, but I'll say it one more time. The Bohunt staff were explicitly told not to interfere as the whole 'experiment' was to test the way the Chinese schools were run and see whether it would work in a British classroom. There was no lack of support from the school, it was carried out as the OU had requested. Secondly, the editing has been creative to say the least. Things were never as bad as are being portrayed on screen. I've now found out that Josh actually asked permission to bring in the kettle which was granted. He made a cup for one of the teachers and she was delighted to have her first cup of English tea.

In terms of why the school signed up for it, throughout discussions they were assured that it was a serious experiment being conducted by the OU and the BBC were making a serious documentary. Of course parents were concerned about it being an Educating Yorkshire type of programme and were assured time and time again by the production team that it wasn't going to be like that at all. This isn't C4, it's the BBC was the common response. Clearly the producer decided to discard those assurances and went ahead with a more sensational type of programme.

The Chinese teachers enjoyed their time at the school and left on good terms with everyone.
mobile.twitter.com/BohuntSchool/status/632671547698880512

Some of us have agreed with you all along, Maryboo - they had an agenda and they made the programme they wanted. Outside the cameras I dare say they were on friendly terms.
It was all for the camera.

I have talked to a reporter once and never, ever again! I wouldn't do it whatever the assurances, and therefore there is no way I would volunteer to be in a TV programme.

If what Maryboo's has been told is correct, I have perhaps been unfair to the Head and staff at Bohunt in relation to the activities of the children, and the staff's lack of action, before and during this experiment. Nonetheless what she has been told does not explain Josh's filmed behaviour, which was rude in the extreme, his mother's reaction, or the behaviour of the troublemakers, who clearly had little or no respect for anything or anyone and no self discipline. I am beginning to think that all this experiment really proves is that "Lord of the Flies" was not entirely a work of unbounded imagination.

That certainly explains the behaviour of the head of maths, who visited, was shocked and did nothing..............

It doesn't explain the HTs comments that the Chinese teachers were 'lazy' and the pupils behaviour was excused because the lessons were 'mind numbingly boring.'

Ok, here's a possible scenario for you. Josh asked permission to bring in the kettle, was granted it, proceeded to make tea on numerous occasions. Mr Zou is not aware of this and is cross when he finds it and takes it away citing health and safety considerations. Meanwhile the production team who clearly see they have a story brewing (pun intended ;) ), invite the mother in to 'tell the story of the kettle'. The Chinese teachers and the mother are all filmed standing in a circle whilst she recounts the story. The Chinese teachers and the mother are unaware of how these incidents are going to be spliced together to tell a story about chaos and bad behaviour in the classroom. They all looked a bit bemused to be honest, after all the teachers were there to carry out an experiment about Chinese teaching. They probably wondered why they were filming anything about the kettle which wasn't particularly relevant. It's not hard to see how it would be easy to manipulate a few minor incidents to form a narrative which becomes the major part of the programme.

"
It doesn't explain the HTs comments that the Chinese teachers were 'lazy' and the pupils behaviour was excused because the lessons were 'mind numbingly boring.'"

He shouldn't have said the behaviour was excused. But the lessons were mind numbingly boring. Which might explain but not excuse.

NarrativeArc, I'm not defending Mr Strowger - he's big enough to do that himself should he chose to. I am however concerned about the level of outrage leveled against children who were manipulated by a production team. I'm just asking that people take everything they view with a pinch of salt instead of sharpening their knives.

Sorry I didn't cath up with the thread, but could I return to that trial report?

It shows the trial should be broadened with better design.

Thank you Noblegiraffe for your link.
After considering carefully the very interesting report you linked, I can’t reach any other conclusion than that Mastery is a method that shows great promise and should be tested more broadly and perhaps in a better execution (last part is just me).

It is obvious that the trial was plagued and undermined by political controversy and poor execution of the method. That is a reason to learn from mistakes and to try an improved version.

The results showed directional improvement in performance of 1 to 2 months in a school year, which over 13 years amounts to 26 months, corresponding roughly to the iclaim that Chinese students are 3 years ahead of us… It didn’t heart anyone and has a potential to help many, so what’s not to like?

The method relied heavily on a different methodical design and preparation of the lesson, it implied a very profound change in teachers’ thinking, a profound reform and retraining, so it is nearly impossible to trial it on the fly and resistance is massive as obvious from this thread.