to be horrified at the behaviour in bohunt school

[SEsofty]

Just watched the programme about Chinese teachers in uk. Whilst I appreciate that it is reality tv and thus exaggeration for effect I was still horrified with the apparent number of children who were talking in class.

I'm not that accident and went to a very normal school but talking whilst teacher did simply didn't happen. I don't agree with the Chinese methods but talking whilst someone is trying to teach you is simply rude.

A TV company sets out to produce a programme knowing exactly what they want. They set it up to get exactly what they want and everyone complains about it and think it shows us something about UK school children.

We would need a comparison. We would have needed to see them in normal lessons first to know what they were 'really' like.

If you read Cyclohexane's post you can see what was needed to make it work- however it would have been a boring programme and not what was on the agenda at all. They set it up according to the agenda and got what they wanted.

The Chinese teacher's careers will not suffer- they will put it down to a different culture. I doubt whether they will see it in China anyway.

I think the huge advantage of UK is that pupils do think for themselves and expect not only to question but to get answers. We have never gone in for youth type rallies where everyone conforms without question- it is not the British way. You are never going to get a class of teenagers singing the national anthem with fervour- this has nothing to do with showing respect for your country.

I very much suspect that they set it up the way the HT wanted it, in order to prove his thesis wrt 'progressive teaching methods', only he didn't bargain for the 'low level disruption' provoking such comment.

I think it is really silly to try to suggest that the likes of Sophie and the other recalcitrants can be categorised as emblems of British independent thinking, heroically holding the line against the massed Chinese as seen in the Beijing Olympics opening ceremony. They are actually closer to the 'football hooligan' image of Britain. In order to think you need to have first studied.

"I very much suspect that they set it up the way the HT wanted it, in order to prove his thesis wrt 'progressive teaching methods', only he didn't bargain for the 'low level disruption' provoking such comment."

I agree--this was probably very much the idea going on in his head. If it's true, then it's a rude and silly way to treat your colleagues, and I'll be heartily amused if this incident does result in a bust-up between the school and their Chinese partners.

The absurd defence of poor behaviour and manners, and knee-jerk criticism of any system of education that is not the UK state system is one of the main barriers to social mobility IMVHO.

I wasn't suggesting that the 'Sophie's' are emblems of independent thinking. Just explaining to the poster, obviously with a younger child, that you won't find any British teenagers singing the national anthem with any fervour in schools.

I am not talking about Sophie- but do people really want their children in large classes while teachers dictate their knowledge and don't expect to be questioned? I don't.

I also don't want the survival of the fittest. Some simply won't keep up. Do we just sacrifice them? My uncle had a system like that- it gave him a stammer that he still had in his 80s.
My husband did- to a certain extent - he has blotted his school days out - he hated it so much.
I have very happy memories of my school days - which were not like that.

I wouldn't like the mental problems that would result. We are already seeing them as pupils are supposed to jump through certain hoops at a certain age and know that they are supposed to get A's in exams and at least a 2:1 degree. I adored school at 5 yrs but it hadn't occurred to me that it had anything to do with adult life and jobs. It was just tremendously exciting with new subjects to learn. Ask any 5 yr old now why they are at school and they will tell you about jobs.
In my day you could get decent jobs after fairly mediocre O'levels - and certainly with a 2:2 - and work your way up. Lots of people were really successful in later life that didn't particularly shine in education.

I think that education is for life and should give a love of learning so that you never stop. Not spoon feeding the knowledge that you need for exams - coming out with top results and thinking the world is your oyster. It isn't. The Chinese seem to have woken up to the fact that pupils need other qualities - or why are the weather sending to top UK schools? Surely the really excellent would be at home?

I think the lady who said that if there were no welfare state the kids would value education a lot more, was on to something

It was a silly idea for a programme, which is why I didn't watch it to start with.
I only watched it once I felt I needed to after commenting on here.
For some reason it is a popular approach to throw people into a situation that they are not prepared for and then watch them fail!

The school wasn't prepared, the teachers weren't prepared and the pupils weren't prepared. And then we pretend it tells us something!

i don't want the survival of the fittest with no welfare state MadamArcati.
If that had worked there should have been no people living in abject poverty in Victorian times.

no, I don't either but it was certainly food for thought in the debate as to why UK kids behave so badly.

Parents have to value education - you can't make them. You have to make them see the advantages which you can't do by setting them up to fail.
We hear about the Chinese successes- we don't hear about the failures.

YANBU. I went to this school - the kids attitudes and behaviour in the programme is exactly how they behaved when I was there - nothing has changed, and I was not surprised in the slightest at what I saw. All this crap about "playing up for the cameras" is a load of bull, it's just what those kids are like because it's the type of kids who go to that crap hole of a school. I was the same, until I grew up, because the teachers didn't give a crap and discipline was so lax it was laughable.

I think the lady who said that if there were no welfare state the kids would value education a lot more, was on to something

^This. But, don't get people started on that debate, they'll just start being drama llamas about it.

I don't imagine any tone wants to import the dubious aspects of an Asian education to the UK.

However, the wholesale denial that there is anything superior that we could transport from any system ( other than Norway - yawn) is a real issue.

It is this lack of analysis and comparison that is allowing our standards to fall. Our DC live in one of the richest and safest societies. Their cultural tradition is deep seated democracy. Education is free to all. Without even having to try they speak in the global language of business, law and academia.

Yet somehow we not only allow so many young people to squander this inheritance, we defend them when they do so.

Utter madness.

I think the thing that is worrying me having slept on it is the damaging effect it might be having on potential teacher, teaching assistant et al recruitment; as a country we are already struggling to recruitment enough teachers or, in the case of primary schools even find enough student places. While in primary schools you can also play the game of “spot the male, member of staff” Seen one? That’s most likely to be the site supervisor.

I agree that you can see the TV companies hand in presenting the spectacle of bad behaviour in class, it is all over the newspapers, and, from the TV companies point of view, you know what they say about there is no such thing as bad publicity. Arguably, in a very different context, aspects of this have been seen before in the series Jamie's Dream School.

The same might not be said in the case of Bohunt School, and I am left wondering if this would have been on air in quite the same format if the school had been a part of Hampshire County Council, with all the support and advice the head could have drawn on when engaging a project like this.

I am left wondering how the crisis management team in the school and the academy is formulated.

Meeting as you read this?

The academy website states, among other things:

“An absolute commitment to the values of enjoy respect achieve”:

It's like that dreadful Walthamstow school on that series last year. Saddening. Depressing. Yet people will queue up to defend it. DC are being short-changed in large numbers in the UK.

I wouldn't cheer-lead for the Chinese or Japanese systems, though.

The Chinese teacher's careers will not suffer- they will put it down to a different culture. I doubt whether they will see it in China anyway

Hopefully you are right.
I would imagine their moral would be low after this and that can't be a good thing.
But then what do you expect when you apply for a program like this? It's as you say - cleverly manipulated to cause excitement and drama.

I think was it Cookiedough who said she has read the Chinese media reports on this show. Cookiedough or anyone else I am fascinated to know what Chinese people or media have thought about the programme if you are happy to share.

littleblue, I bet they are watching it in China. I would love to know what they think of it as well.

www.youtube.com/results?hl=en&q=%22chinese%20school%22%20%22are%20our%20kids%20tough%22&gbv=2&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=w1

Actually the very first results on Youtube to come up are videos of the show created by Chinese viewers! I also did a news search for the title of the show in Chinese and there were pages of results. so Chinese people absolutely are watching this and commenting. I list just a couple of these below: I can't read much Chinese, but someone could try putting these through an auto translate thing and seeing if they could get a rough idea of the tone...?

edu.people.com.cn/n/2015/0807/c1053-27425399.html
learning.sohu.com/20150807/n418328547.shtml
finance.sina.com.cn/roll/20150813/054022952201.shtml

I live in Japan, by the way; the Japanese system is nowhere near as extreme as the Chinese system in terms of workload these days. They do work the students harder than the British do though--I think that's probably a good thing.

The Japanese system definitely has its flaws and weak points, but from what I have seen, most subjects (other than English!) are pretty well taught and give students a thorough foundation. Teaching styles are more teacher-led and whole-class than in the UK, but that does not mean that the average teacher just stands at the front of the class droning with nobody listening to them; most Japanese teachers take great pains to create teacher-led lessons that create some interest from the students and go at the right "pace." I have no idea what the average class in China is like, though.

Thanks for the link Statesman.

Some of the comments are in English, so it's worth a read.

You are never going to get a class of teenagers singing the national anthem with fervour- this has nothing to do with showing respect for your country.

I do not think people are worried that that they did not sing it, whether with or without fervour, but rather that quite a number of these children were showing positiive disrespect, talking loudly, pulling faces and generally fooling around. I would not expect my children to sing another country's national anthem but I certainly would not allow them to fool around and show disrespect when it is being played or sung - if in public I would expect them to stand quietly until it was finished, just as for another faith's prayers. This was their own National Anthem and standing quietly and respecting other people's respect is the least that should have happened. More generally I do not agree that the lack of respect for the Anthem is not symptomatic of lack of respect for their country. If these children had any respect for either their school or their country they would not behave in a way which lets both down. If they had proper respect for their own teachers, their peers - or even themselves - they would not treat guests in their school in the way they behaved towards these Chinese teachers. As other posters have said this is being viewed abroad and makes me feel as ashamed as the antics of some of their elders rolling around the streets of Megaluf. I am afraid that I agree entirely with those who say that the staff at Bohunt are substantiallly to blame for not making it crystal clear in advance that what happened in the classroom during this experiment would not stay in the classroom - and that there would be severe consequences for anybody who let his or her school down. As I said in an earlier post the whole experiment ought to have been split between two different schools.

A poster previously said UK (caucasion I am going to make an assumption here) kids compete well on the job front. I am not sure about that. I think it is much harder to get jobs these days. Given that I do milk round and graduate recruitment in my company I see a lot of international and Asian contingent extremely well qualified (with the soft skills and volunteering experience to match). Hubby is an IT recruiter who recruits IT jobs paying day rates of £500+ a day and above. At least half of them of applications are from Europeans and Asians.

I'm unable to comment on jobs like hairdressing/shop floor/ apprenticeships etc and what their demographics are in job competition. I can only give my experience in the city/corp jobs where I am based (top 10 Forbes billion$ company).

CatWithKittens just explained and echoed my thoughts as to what I was trying to convey as to the national anthem comment from my earlier post.

As to the summer riots, surely a disciplined child with good morals irrespective of their academic and/or social background should know that breaking into private property to steal is wrong?

Yes, I agree that a child should voice their opinion in class by raising their hand but messing about in class whilst the teacher is trying to teach is in my opinion rude. We are making too many excuses for poor behaviour and the children themselves on the programme know they are giving the teachers a hard time.

I dislike the idea of kids having to sing the National anthem everyday or marching around like columns of ants. I agree that the Chinese teaching methods were not very engaging. However there is no excuse for poor manners, disrespect and insolence.
Its this society that will come down to survival of the fittest, dog eat dog in the end if this isn't addressed.

Came to add my tuppence worth but I don't have to because Mehitabel!

Just to add that I would not be confident that my two ( genuinely) model student pleasure to teach blah blah kids would have behaved well in Chinese School. I think they would have tried- but I honestly doubt they would have managed it. I wonder if other posters with teenagers feel the same.