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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask where I can send my 57p?

405 replies

drspouse · 31/07/2015 20:47

According to the Mirror if all the asylum seekers currently in Calais came into the UK and (highly unlikely) never paid any tax, it would cost each of us 57p.
To save a group of people from some of the most unimaginable horrors in their home countries, I'm more than happy to pay that.
So, where do I sign to pay up (and make it clear I'm happy for them to officially seek asylum and have their claims verified)?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/not-migrant-hordes--people-6165167

OP posts:
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BeyondTheWall · 01/08/2015 10:11

Yy swallowed. I feel for my poor dh having to push my wheelchair that far - my powerchair only has a range of a couple of miles. At least he's multilingual though, god forbid we needed a county that spoke english

BeyondTheWall · 01/08/2015 10:13

Extra luckily for me btw, i'm only three generations from both italian and french (and scottish), so i have a 'claim' to a few other countries...

unlucky4marie · 01/08/2015 10:18

I wouldn't because we already have a lack of jobs and homes here and leaving behind their home countries wouldn't help the people there.

What if ghandi or nm had of just left their countries?

FarFromAnyRoad · 01/08/2015 10:19

LazyLohan - two excellent posts. Rational and well thought out without simply giving way to hand wringing and posting 'donated'.

JassyRadlett · 01/08/2015 10:29

Except Lazy's posts seem to be working on the idea that Sangatte hasn't been closed for 13 years.

Incidentally closing off and not replacing a legal route for people on the Continent to claim asylum in the UK.

brimfullofasha · 01/08/2015 10:39

What exactly makes these people 'illegal'? They are people. Not many people fleeing oppressive regimes can just use their passport and jump on a plane. I'd happily give 57p for them to live in safety.

AndNowItsSeven · 01/08/2015 10:47

There is no need to leave France to claim asylum in the Uk. France is a safe country. They might have a better quality of like in the UK, however France is perfectly adequate.
I would have a better quality of life in Brisbane, near my DSIL, I can't just move there though.

HarrietVane99 · 01/08/2015 10:47

OK, everyone donates their 57p, the migrants currently in Calais will be allowed in and settle down to live like model citizens. Sorted.

And then the trafficking gangs will go back to their countries of origin and say, look how successful we are at getting people into the UK. We can extort even more money from you and your family for the privilege of being sent off across the Med on a leaky rustbucket to live in a tent near Calais. Can't pay upfront? Never mind, when you get to the UK and get that well paid job and shiny new house that's going to be handed to you as soon as you arrive, you can pay us a proportion of your earnings until we decide the debt is settled. Or if you're a young woman I'm sure we can think of some other way for you to pay it off.

What's the plan for sorting that? Just so I know where to send my 57p to pay my share of the cost.

RachelRagged · 01/08/2015 10:47

Like Beyond the Wall ..

3 Generations back were from England, Ireland (North and South) and Scotland

hibbleddible · 01/08/2015 10:48

Is it just me who wonders why all these asylum seekers want to come to the UK?

Why are we so much better than France?

IsItMeOrIsItHotInHere · 01/08/2015 10:51

And what about when the next lot want to do the same? I read on here that there are something like 65 million displaced people in the world right now. How do you differentiate between the ones at Calais now and all the others how would come, given half a chance? What about all those landing daily the Greek Islands right now? What if they they hear the good news and all pitch up at Calais, or hop on a fifty quid Easyjet flight from Kos to Stansted and voila? Let's face it, I doubt they want to hang around in Greece for too long as things stand - not much opportunity to be had there right now, is there?

There are millions of people here now already complaining that they are on a low income with jobs that offer no security topped up by tax credits. They'd pay their 57p out of money that is already given back to them in the form of in-work benefits, which is real terms means someone else is paying 57p twice. A few hundred thousand more migrants and that's a pretty tricky balancing act you've got going on there. Presumably if there were better paid, more secure jobs out there people in the UK would already be doing them, right? So what jobs do we give all the migrants wanting a chance to prove themselves and work for a better life?

All you people queueing up to show your 57p, are you prepared/able to put in the money and keep putting it in for the other 65 million, should they arrive at Calais? And if not, on what grounds? Actual eligibility doesn't seem to be an issue for you, so at what point do you personally say 'No. Enough now.' I am really keen to know. Because there are many millions of others globally who may not be displaced now but they will be. Or they are living somewhere with few opportunities and dreaming of a more prosperous, safer life somewhere else. How many lots of 57p can you afford?

Do you think allowing all the people in from Calais, no questions asked, (regardless of whether or not they are in need of genuine asylum or are just opportunistic young men who heard that our streets are paved with gold) will do anything at all to dissuade hundreds of thousands more from trying, once word gets back that if you just keep bugging us or literally repeatedly running at the border, we give in because we are compassionate? Not to mention the security risk of giving in to such tactics.

I think a good number of the people at Calais are (for example) north African men who are not fleeing war, just demoralised from living somewhere where life is tough and political regimes are corrupt and sometimes brutal. And indeed west African men who went to Libya, Tunisia and Egypt as economic migrants and when that went tits up they were no longer welcome so rather than go back home (where there are currently no major wars as far as I know) they are looking for the next place to find work. No-one can argue that they've been dealt a crap hand in life compared to us, but so have billions of people globally. How is it our responsibility to 'solve' that by letting anyone come here just because they want to? Confused And how long would the UK stay such an apparently attractive prospect if we did just that? It would implode socially and economically within 5 years.

Sentimental grandiose gestures of support (by giving er…57p Hmm) are all very well but I'd rather focus on why so many people want to leave the countries they are from and support them to bring about positive change and stability wherever possible. I'd rather we took away foreign aid from China and India (they REALLY don't need it, if they don't prioritise and direct their own wealth appropriately and keep their own house in order that has to be their problem, not ours) and gave more to African and Asian countries that do need it and can be trusted and supported to spend it wisely, while tightening up on immigration and eligibility here.

A further influx of largely unskilled workers with language and cultural barriers who all need jobs, housing, schooling and medical care is not something we are in a great position to give and KEEP ON giving ad infinitum. At least not to the high standards that we have come to demand and expect of ourselves. It is totally unsustainable. Christ, most people on here complain endlessly about austerity and the standard/availability of social housing, education, cuts to health care now so how much more thinly do you seriously think we can keep spreading the same amount of money?

For example we currently take responsibility for agreeing to house anyone who has children with them rather then see them sleep on the street. We currently agree to educate free any child who is here for whatever reason, regardless of their parents' status. We currently agree to fund children from poor backgrounds through university. We currently agree to take care of everyone's health and medical care regardless of their income or lack of, and regardless of their immigration status. If they are here, they get the healthcare. Free. We make a pathetic show of looking like we try to recover money from those not eligible to use our NHS, but it's just for show. Unless it's an easy target with a strong paper trail and a healthy bank balance behind them. Which it usually isn't.

We agree that families should not live in (by our own stringent definition) overcrowded or inadequate housing and we do what we can to move them to bigger/better accommodation wherever possible. If they have 8 children we give them a house (or at least we attempt to give them a house) that adequately sleeps eight children - as is their right according to our own rules. It's hard now - how much harder are we prepared for it to be, without compromising our (relatively speaking) very high standards, which is, after all, the reason people want to come in the first place?

If we allowed all the would-be migrants of the world a chance to come here for a better, safer life how on earth do you propose we keep the economic see-saw balanced and maintain the standards we've set ourselves as a highly developed first world nation? Unless we want the UK to become covered in shanty towns, or get rid of the NHS? I am really keen to know if anyone has any workable answers to this, that actually stack up.

All this 'What borders? I see no borders' nonsense is the stuff of a six former's ideological rantings. Someone tell me how it actually works in the real world please.

RagstheInvincible · 01/08/2015 10:52

If the number were finite, this might be possible. But it isn't. Once we've paid our 57p each and the current batch of seekers are settled in the UK, they will be replaced by others in France and so on and so on. The idea is ridiculous.

Moreshabbythanchic · 01/08/2015 10:54

There are a lot of naïve people on this thread. Do you really think 57p is going to house, feed, clothe, educate, medically treat a person for life (or until they obtain one of these non existent jobs). Even if you paid 57p a day it wouldn't even come close.

BTW, I'm out, I am a pensioner and don't pay tax but I would happily pay 57p to support a disabled person or someone who is homeless or to someone having to use a food bank to feed their children. I'm a great believer in charity begins at home and there are a lot more deserving people already in this country who don't break the law to get what they need.

caroldecker · 01/08/2015 10:55

My point was why help only those aggressive enough or rich/in debt enough to people traffickers to get to Calais? If they are genuine, they can claim asylum in France and later move to the UK.
Why not help those left behind, who are not able to get asylum in France?

BeyondTheWall · 01/08/2015 10:56

"They'd pay their 57p out of money that is already given back to them in the form of in-work benefits, which is real terms means someone else is paying 57p twice."

Well, mine is actually out of work benefits. I'll see you in court to police my spending, yes?

BeyondTheWall · 01/08/2015 10:58

I'm disabled morethanshabby. I could send you my email address and you could paypal me 57p, which i'll donate. Or skip the middleman and donate on my behalf? Wink

Moreshabbythanchic · 01/08/2015 11:05

If you needed something to make your life better I would happily give you 57p but you don't seem to be in need as you are happy to give money away to a wasted cause.

time4chocolate · 01/08/2015 11:11

I might be extremely naive (and probably controversial) but if you were desperate/brave enough to to leave a poverty/violence ridden country with your young family in tow (and if I was in that position I would be trying to do the same) then surely you would be immensely relieved to be able to have survived the horrendous journey and then you seek asylum in whichever country you safely arrive in. It seems that a huge number of these people are prepared to put their families at further risk by continuing their hazardous journeys, having crossed several safe haven countries in Europe , to get to what they think is the pot of gold at the end of the European rainbow (UK). I am all for helping people in genuine need but, in manageable numbers, these numbers for our small country are not manageable and we just cannot afford it.

drspouse · 01/08/2015 11:13

late and widow hopefully the charity will think it's a bit unusual to get lots of 57ps, or amounts ending in 57p, but as they don't seem to staff their Twitter feed over the weekend, they might not know why till Monday.
But don't worry, there are still lots of people who post on all the "Britain is full, what's wrong with France and all the other countries that take more refugees than us already we LIKE looking ungenerous " threads to keep the thread active.

But thankfully my inner cynic is thwarted by seeing that there are also lots of people who aren't afraid to be counted among those that care.

OP posts:
IsItMeOrIsItHotInHere · 01/08/2015 11:31

To be fair, it isn't just the UK this happens to time it happens across quite a few economically stable and relatively prosperous European countries as well as some non-European ones. But anyone bringing up the points you've made usually gets responded to along the lines of 'The UK takes fewer than so what are you complaining about? Most asylum seekers globally don't end up in the UK, and it's a myth to say that ALL want to come to Britain.'

As though that somehow closes down the question and negates your point about the ones that do. Confused

It shouldn't matter to us who goes elsewhere and why - it's not a competition to be the most put upon that we must be seen to win, is it? Confused And neither is it our responsibility or obligation to do 'as much' or 'better than' X, Y or Z when it comes to allowing migration from non EU countries We should just be concerning ourselves with what we think we can comfortably and realistically sustain here.

IsItMeOrIsItHotInHere · 01/08/2015 11:33

how funny, and I see it has in fact just happened while I was typing!

travellinglighter · 01/08/2015 11:46

Can I solve the refugee crisis in Calais? No and neither can anyone on Mumsnet or even the occupants of 10 Downing street. If it was easy, it would be done.

Lets get a bit of perspective on our full up country. The UK currently has 6.8% of it’s land mass covered by buildings. England has 10%, Wales 4.1%, Northern Ireland 3.9% and Scotland 1.9%. We have lots of empty homes and a fair proportion of people in this country have second homes. We are not full up, 80% of us live clustered together in urban areas. I reckon 1% extra, re-designating of brown field sites and a relaxation of zoning laws would probably help a lot.

We don’t have enough houses in this country but that’s because we have hidebound planning laws that prevent innovative means of solving our problems. One MNer has suggested that building a 3 bedroom house costs £250,000. It does if you pay £150,000 for the land and who says we have to give every immigrant a 3 bedroom house. I’ve lived in a flat with 2 kids and now live in a 3 bedroom house with 2 kids because I worked hard got a mortgage and moved.

Am I advocating mass immigration? No, but I do care what happens to those in Calais. It might be time to open an office on the French side, ask the migrants to form an orderly queue and ask them to submit a claim for asylum in the UK. In return, they will be required to stop attempting to get in illegally. Any attempt at illegal entry would then mean an automatic rejection of the claim and an involuntary return to country of origin.

If a claim is rejected then the migrant should be helped to return to their home country. It’s cheaper than leaving them to live in squalor while we build more elaborate fences around motorways and railway lines.

Frankly, I reckon if we rocked up in the Calais jungle and said "anyone who wants £1000 and a plane ticket home can have one” then we would get a slow trickle back of fed up bogus asylum seekers.

Garlick · 01/08/2015 11:54

Wise words, travelling. I cannot understand why we are paying £50k each to forcibly deport people already living here, when that same money could build a small town, put services in it, and transport refugees to it in a comfy bus.

Moreshabbythanchic, I'm on out-of-work benefits and do a monthly £10 shop for the food bank. I made a small donation to the Refugee Council. The sacrifices I choose to make for people who are even worse off than me are none of your business.

Garlick · 01/08/2015 11:56

... I don't actually think building a 'refugeeville' is a rational solution - we need more integration, not ghettoisation - but the point's still there.

HarrietVane99 · 01/08/2015 11:59

Statistics can be found to support any argument. According to EU statistics, the UK is the third most densely populated mainland EU country, after the Netherlands and Belgium. It could be argued that the less densely populated countries should take more refugees/migrants than the more densely populated.